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    help with my tallarn fluff

    hey

    can anyone think of a reason to justify my taking of the Drop Troops doctrine??
    i need it in gaming terms because i have no tanks. the idea i'm running on at he moment is that they ride these geneticly modified tame birds. the "scout" troops infiltrate in then radio for the drop troops.

    i need your help, or feedback on my original idea


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    Do they need to be tallarn or just desert themed IG?

    If its the latter there could be any number of reasons.

    If it has to be tallarn then that makes it harder. Tallarn are known for their raids and quick striking so drop troops wouldn't be out of the question but its hard for me to imagine them dropping out of air ships or using anything like a grav-sute.

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    is Alpharius FabricatorGeneralMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moss
    hey

    can anyone think of a reason to justify my taking of the Drop Troops doctrine??
    i need it in gaming terms because i have no tanks. the idea i'm running on at he moment is that they ride these geneticly modified tame birds. the "scout" troops infiltrate in then radio for the drop troops.

    i need your help, or feedback on my original idea

    how about saying that instead of using them as -drop troops- why not say that they use some kind of tunneling/boaring machines. the ig used to have alot of them back in epic days hellbores, temites, and I can't remember the other one. It basically workes the same way, just instead of grav shoots they pop out of the ground. Maybe you could make up some kinda vehicles if you wanted to poking out of the ground and discharging them, or you could just make craters where they appear?? who knows, let your imagination go wild with this. at the moment im -trying- :wacko: t odo a mechanicus army and I want to use elete adeptus mechanicus teleport teams as my storm trooper choices, its all the same rules and such. its just the fluff that you are changing around. so go wild and have some fun:ninja:
    FluffMaster on a mission to turn people to the Sisters of battle, yes folks it's all about SoB squads in Repressors with lots of flamer templates for the win.

  5. #4
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    Hellbores and termites and stuff still exist and are mentioned a bit but they're extremely rare.. They seem more like the kind of thing which would be issued to Skitarii tech guard than a basic Tallarn regiment.

    This is a tactical point, not a fluff point, but I don't think you need drop troops just because you have no tanks at all. Remember that drop troops breaks your army into medium sized, easy to handle chunks as your troops drop in randomly. You could just stick them all at one end of the table and use your silly ammount of heavy weapons and disposable wounds to do whatever you need.

    Alternatively, give some squads the light infantry doctrine (which is recommended for tallarn) and have them infiltrate.

    Alternately, say they don't come from Tallarn at all. They come from a low tech desert planet where the high temperatures cause huge thermal updrafts and weather systems, so everyone flies around on primitive kites or hang-gliders (perhaps they build their settlements on mesas, so it's difficult to walk.) Hence, they wear desert combat gear like the tallarns, but are also expert at judging winds and good with heights, making them good candidates for drop troop training as well.
    Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; April 28th, 2006 at 09:26.

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    is Alpharius FabricatorGeneralMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis
    Hellbores and termites and stuff still exist and are mentioned a bit but they're extremely rare.. They seem more like the kind of thing which would be issued to Skitarii tech guard than a basic Tallarn regiment.

    Well, I dont know about that, I see them being used whenever the situation demands it. The whole point of the imperial guard is to use whatever customs and technology that the planet has developed, for the best explotment by imperial forces. thats why we have calvery,
    unique units,abhumans and such. So if a world developed a way of underground traveling, such as a desert world, maybe a rad-world, im shure the guard would exploit it to the fullest.
    I was not trying to dicate to him what and how his army should be organized, just wanted to let him know that there where alteritaves out there fluff wise. good point tho in pointing out that maybe he should change his army doctrines around. who knows maybe after afew battles with the -drop troops- he will figure out that its not worth it, or that it doesn't fit in with his sceme.:ninja:
    FluffMaster on a mission to turn people to the Sisters of battle, yes folks it's all about SoB squads in Repressors with lots of flamer templates for the win.

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    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    OK couple of thoughts:
    1. Talarn are quite clearly bounded by fluff and doctrines, however, fluff wise the majority of life on Talarn is underground, so the termite route may not be a bad explanation.

    2. Life on Talarn is pretty much nill, no plants/brids etc so your bird plan doesnt fit the fluff

    3. Does it have to be Talarn, assuming you want to use talarn minis they could come from another desert planet as someone said

    4. typically drop troops in an airborn sense are dropped from Valkyries, this can be high altitude using drop chutes (Elysian fluff) so there is no need to have the vehicles themselves.

    5. Drop troops are a complete swine to use effectively, trust me on this one, below is something I have posted before and was considerign as an article:

    A Doctrine too far - Imperial Guard Drop Troop Tactica

    I have been tempted to write this for a while as I find myself saying the same thing over again on the IG forum, this is basically a guide to the uses of the drop troop doctrine vailable from codex IG. I am going to try and bite my tongue and not mention my Elysians (damn did it already) or general forgeworld goodness that fits so well with the doctrine (Vuture gunships)

    So mostly we have all seen “A bridge too far� or “Black hawk down� right? All excited? Want to field an army which deep strikes onto the battlefield and through heroic courage and skill at arms manages to save they day? The look no further (this could put you off the idea for life)

    Classically paratroops are used as part of a combined arms operation, taking objectives ahead of an advancing body of troops. This really doesn’t equate to the skirmish scale of 40K but it can be used in the game. Add to this that fact that IG generally stands and shoots relying on putting down a hail of fire for as many turns as possible as the opponent treks towards them, however the drop troop doctrine when applied to a unit means the unit gets fewer turns shooting having missed at least the first one and starts closer to the enemy. Disaster? Not entirely, deep striking isn’t on of those “All or nothing� doctrines, you can give it to selected units, which brings us, rather laboriously, to the first area:

    Partly drop troop Armies

    This is the most common usage of the drop troop doctrine, the main body of the army is played as standard IG army but selected units are given the deep strike ability in order to “reach out and touch someone�

    Objective taking
    In theory odd squads can be deep struck onto objectives, a cunning plan, probably best reserved for storm troopers, but don’t expect them to hold onto it if your opponent makes any serious attempt to take it, even a squad of stormies cant cope that well in close combat, rather, if you have units arriving very late, drop them onto objectives that are well clear of your opponent, but this is more or less a target of opportunity rather than a planned tactic.

    Suicide squads
    By far the most common use of drop troop doctrine is the creation of a suicide squad that lands next to an opponent unit and destroys it, subsequently they tend to get wiped out but some units are very effective at this. The two riders on this are that firstly you can not guarantee the squad wont deviate/scatter, often this makes them completely ineffective so don’t rely on them as an absolute, secondly the nature of deep strike means you wont be using these squads in turn 1 so don’t depend on them to take out armour or fast elites that will do their damage early on. Classics include:

    Special weapons squads with flamers and/or demo charges – these can devastate full squads of the biggest, hardest units in your opponents’ army, and rather pleasingly the demo charge reinforces the suicide nature of the squad by deviating back on to its own unit half the time

    Special weapons squads with meltaguns and/or demo charges – again can devastate MEQs but clearly can take out tanks very effectively

    Veteran squads (small in numbers) with 3 flamers or 3 meltas – can do the same as above

    Arguably platoon HQs tooled with flamers or meltas can do this too but this is rather a waste of the points spent on an officer

    Sentinels – the most common option being the heavy flamer which can kill troops effectively, but equally all other options can get access to the rear armour of vehicles

    But I see myself as Gene Hackman in a beret with a dodgy Polish accent
    Ok so if you genuinely want to play a drop troop army and drop everything onto the table, then.. your forces are going to arrive piecemeal and off target, you can not out fight your opponent and you have hampered your shooting, all you have is guts and the bare faced refusal to look facts in the face! Me, I am in! This isn’t an army for the inexperienced or faint hearted; it needs to be played cunningly and innovatively. You need to hit hard and then hold on for dear life

    Classically my drop troops, when the Elysian rules are banned, takes the iron discipline doctrine. All squads have voxs and the Command HQ has a master vox. All squads take vet sgts. The HQs provide fire support from as many special weapons as I can get into them, but I do tend to include a medic, roughly the army can be broken down into 3 areas: 2 assault elements and odds and sods. The 2 assault elements are essentially the infantry platoons and their command squads. Each infantry squad has a special weapon and a missile launcher (the only viable heavy weapon mini for the Elysians). In addition to this are the odds and sods, these include special weapons squads (flamers and meltas with demo charge), the HQ command squad, with loads of special weaponry, a sentinel with an Autocannon and improved comms, 2 sentinels with las cannons and HK missiles, veterans and storm troopers.

    Assault Elements:
    Identify 1 target per platoon (in my case 2 targets), ideally these are objectives guarded by strong squads. Deep strike platoons around the target, usually the whole platoon around a single objective, and rapid fire into the defenders, what is left will generally charge you, charge it right back, with as much as possible, the only proviso on this is if other units are in the area, you may need to dose these up with fire. Gradually get your units into firing positions on the objective.

    Odds and Sods
    These have a number of roles, firstly they can reinforce the assault elements, if you feel the entire platoon can not handle the current defenders then support them with an odds and sods unit.
    Secondly these units can take out enemy squads threatening your assault units, particularly good for this are the special weapons squads with demo charges, although rolling the scatter dice twice makes you very prone to missing.
    Several of these units can be used to take out enemy tanks and fire support, deep striking deep into the enemies deployment zone and chewing up his rear, this can be a suicide mission, but if so will distract your opponent from taking on your assault elements and recapturing the objectives.
    These are to all intents and purposes, a tactical reserve to squander or hoard at your peril, generally if they have killed more points than they cost, then they have done their job.

    Usually by turn 5 the majority of your army has arrived, most of the odds and sods have been killed or are routing off the board and what is left of your assault elements are hiding in cover around objectives and trying to tough it out. Arnhem all over again, unfortunately 30 Corps is not ever going to arrive, but hey, you have the advantage of the game ending around turn so you just need to tough it out until then

    Cityfight
    Drop troop armies are a mixed blessing in a cityfight, but can be extremely effective, their lack of vehicles, high numbers, mobile fire power all contributes to make them pretty effective, but don’t deep strike them if at all possible, watching as you entire platoon disappears thanks to the scatter dice gods is not a pleasant feeling.

    Most importantly – have fun, enjoy the flamboyance and daring of the army, revel in the fact that your drop knocked your opponents plans into a ****ed hat and by the time he had recovered, the game was over. Personally I always enjoy sitting through the deployment phase with my arms crossed looking smug and watching my opponent get anxious on turn 2 when I pick up the dice for the reserve rolls
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  8. #7
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FabricatorGeneralMike
    Well, I dont know about that, I see them being used whenever the situation demands it. The whole point of the imperial guard is to use whatever customs and technology that the planet has developed, for the best explotment by imperial forces. thats why we have calvery
    Yeah.. but I'm sure it mentions in the guard codex that tunneling transports are rare and seldom deployed. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're non-existent or that no basic guard regiment has any. But I'd imagine they're the fancy guys from high tech forgeworlds, not a bunch of desert tribesmen.

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    is Alpharius FabricatorGeneralMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis
    Yeah.. but I'm sure it mentions in the guard codex that tunneling transports are rare and seldom deployed. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're non-existent or that no basic guard regiment has any. But I'd imagine they're the fancy guys from high tech forgeworlds, not a bunch of desert tribesmen.

    Who says the desert tribemen have to be lowtech level? Why are they a bunch of low tech barbarians because there world is a desert? who says they arnt like the vahallans who have huge underground (well underglacier) cities :shifty: If they can survive in that harsh enviorment then they have one of two things 1, they know the 'ancient time honoured ways of doing stuff ' eg, they know what plants give water, they know where to dig wells by the paterens of the sands and so forth, or 2, they use tech for all those previous metioned things. We could also say they use a combination of the two also. But how knows,eh, its all in how he wishes the fluff to develop. And its good to see a place where people can disagree on something and it doesnt turn into a flame war. Debate is a good thing. I am still rather new here but I have felt welcomed so far by the way. Good points mantis. And im not shure that there is any mention of tunneling vehicles in the codex. the only real mention of vehicles ive seen is the banning of grav vehicles after the Heresy. :ninja:
    FluffMaster on a mission to turn people to the Sisters of battle, yes folks it's all about SoB squads in Repressors with lots of flamer templates for the win.

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    Alternately, say they don't come from Tallarn at all. They come from a low tech desert planet where the high temperatures cause huge thermal updrafts and weather systems, so everyone flies around on primitive kites or hang-gliders (perhaps they build their settlements on mesas, so it's difficult to walk.) Hence, they wear desert combat gear like the tallarns, but are also expert at judging winds and good with heights, making them good candidates for drop troop training as well
    i have considered this option, saying they use hangliders but a lot of people i spoke to about it didnt like it.

    also, i have considered the posibility of them tunneling, but i chose not to because i thought that tuneling woudnt work because sand is realy loose and it would just collapse.

    also my army is going to be based on middle eastern underground groups, making extensive use of grenade and missile launchers and even going to convert a guy with a demolition charge (suicide bomber). do you think this is a good idea, or will people be offended by it (9/11......)?

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