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ok, so the Imperium is suposed to have technologicaly regressed in the past 10,000 years (people have forgotten how stuff works, gone 'backwards' essentialy). so why are the newer models (tanks, guns ect.) better? fluffwise i mean, because i know that the designers want to make new cooler models to keep people interested. and while i'm on the topic of technology, what about Chaos? their tech is supposed to be 10,000 years old as well. they left the imperium and as such, would not have the same stuff (as newer versions come out) as the imperium yet their tanks, guns and armour are basically the same, but spikey. thoughts?
As for Chaos, it's like you said: Imperial technology hasn't progressed much, so the basic designs are mostly the same. I don't know what newer versions you're referring to exactly, but they should be mostly similar. However, you can tell that the Imperium has advanced because they have Landspeeders, and Whirlwinds and Vindicators. And their armour is different if you take in all the details. SMs have little vents and lines on their armour and CSM do not. CSM have some sort of exposed spring-lookin'-thingy on their legs, SM do not. SM have different powerplant backpacks, and (for the most part) bolters with clips instead of hanging ammo. Besides, why improve on a design that is really good already? The CSM are still a pain in the backside to kill, so their armour must be good. Why change?Originally Posted by Anubis_
Lord Baal of the Ordo Sanguinius Clan
Basically CSM have stayed the same, but the Imperium seems to be on the upward curve of a dip in technological development, if only slightly.
Like you say, the Imperium has technologically regressed. The Adeptus Mechanicus has basically has focussed on how to operate/build something rather than why to do it that way.
An analogy is that you know how to make your TV work, change channels and the like. But you wouldnt neccessarily know why it works, and what theories a cathode ray tube uses in order to make up the images on the screen.
The Imperium were more advanced in the past, then fell into the line of thinking above, after which things went downhill a bit. Fluffwise it seems that the AdMech are realising that theres more knowledge out there to be applied to engines of war.
"It fits like clothes made out of wasps!"
Tech in 40k doesn't really advance.. the principles stay the same, but they can build modified versions of the existing tank platforms and so forth. Yes, some worlds are regressed, but they won't be building land raider crusaders there.
Chaos tech has advanced too, though in a different direction. Firstly, it's all been altered by the warp.. This might not be considered advancement but it has bought change (this is why the armour is spikey anyway.)
Secondly, there are chaos tech priests and scientific marines who are unfettered by mechanicus doctrine and who do build nasty pieces of warp technology. Things like the zombie plague, the obliterator virus and the many posessed war machines (defilers, lords of battle, silver towers and the like) were all likely built by the Dark Adeptus using their obscene knowledge of the warp.
well the thing is for the most part battlefield practicality allways bypasses piety.
I mean if space marine religion required them to carry airhorns to alert everything within a mile of thier coming, after the first fight they would ditch them, even if it was an "insult to the emporer". Because common sense would rule that the emporer would rather have me alive and carrying out his will (purging stuff ect) than adamantly following stupid rules.
Because of this, if some smart guy developed a lasgun that was more powerful than a bolter, the adeptus mechanicus techpriest would probably be all like OMGWTFBBQHERESY!!!!1!!!1!1!11oneoneone! even if it was better than the regular one.
But then if you gave one to any guardsman alive he would be like SWEET!. And when it comes down to it that guardsman could be the one keeping the techpriest alive, so he cant complain.
The space marines have made many innovations, like the land raider variants that have been accepted by the mechanicus because the battle results cant be argued with.
Chaos on the other hand would probably loot and fix up and mutate imperium tech to serve thier wishes. I mean take a land raider and and corrupt it and what do you get? a land raider with spikes!
They still have some unupdated tech, like the autocannons instead of assault cannons but hey if it works dont fix it.
Originally Posted by Sempervigilans
Indeed. Case in point: Annihilator Pattern Predators. First built by the Space Wolves to break out of a siege because they needed mobile tankbusters (and didn't have Land Raiders handy).
Solution? Take Lascannons from Long Fangs, strap to Predators, go blow stuff up!
Mechanicus Tech Priests agree to consider the design due to obvious success, finally say it's OK 200 years later..... By which point all the other marines had already been using the Annihilator for 190 years!
this still doesn't answer my question of what the fluff reason is to introducing newer MODELS of things, such as the new rhinos and land raiders. and if you don't know what i mean, i'm not talking about completely new veichles in-game, i mean newer models which come in sprue and put together yourself.
That's just Games-Workshop creating new interest. They're making models more detailed as their modeling techniques get better. There's nothing fluff-related about it. You're supposed to pretend that they've either always been like that, or that there has always been an old Rhino, Land Raider etc. model co-existing with the newer versions. I know the boxes, for example the new predator, say "MkIVb", suggesting a newer Imperial version. But you've still got the old version, so I think you're supposed to go with both versions always having existed and just beings upgrades pre-heresy.Originally Posted by Anubis_
Chaos also captures vehicles. Take the Iron Warriors, for example. They capture basilisks and vindicators, so CSMs could also capture updated Imperial technology.
Last edited by Grandmaster Adek; May 19th, 2006 at 12:14.
Lord Baal of the Ordo Sanguinius Clan
That's a very confused question and I'm not sure what you mean.Originally Posted by Anubis_
If you mean the changes in edition, those are discounted. For example, the old obliterators were normal marine sized, the new obliterators are terminator size, does this mean fluffwise there was a change? Nope, it just means GW sculptors decided that the flowerpot men needed to go. It's the same with the vehicles.. when the newer land raider model came out, it didn't mean that there'd just been some fluff based quantum leap in land raider construction, it just meant that the model got updated.
If you mean new vehicle variants, like the Land Raider / Land Raider Crusader, well, the reason it's okay in the fluff is because all the components are based on the standard template constructs and they're just rejigging them to suit a different role. In the case of the crusader, the land raider chassis is based on a standard template construct, the bolters used in the hurricane bolters are based on another standard template construct. The assault cannon is also based on a standard template construct. All the marines did was combine them in an unorthodox manner.
Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis
Plus you have the fact that different manufacturers like to leave thier own little signatures on the machines they build. You can have a Hellhound, or you can have an Artemia Pattern or a Graia Pattern Hellhound. Same basic machine, different Forge Worlds, different design characteristics. That could be used to explain why some models of the exact same machine look different...fluffwise anyways.