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Right im realise that im about to recieve an onslaught of slagging and jeering and all other forms of heretical heckling;
However i've just started collecting a word eaters army and it occured to me these fellas are the epitome of marshall strengh (without the chivalry emphasised by the templars...) and that their phycotic killers frothing at the mouth for the blood of their enemies (just like the templars except they exchange khorne with emporer.....) they also share a hate of the psyker. So what im asking is, do you think that it is possible that a small force of zerkers led by their lordcould become disgusted by the rotting machinations and outright sneakyness of the other chaos legions and repent their corruption, in that the lord has become questionable of the changes hes obserbved in his troops and decides return to the light.
Lets face it what difference would it make to the berzerkers if they exchange the blood god for the emporer and fight against the other chaos, khorne still gets his skulls and my WE lord feels a lot better about who and what hes fighting for. Also the plenty of other SM chapters who lust for blood and flesh and can seen to be just as brutal in battle.
We all know that the imperium gets awfully jumpy about the smallest of rituals and weve seen before how an argument of such practises can result in a rebllion, look at badab? C
Obviously the ordo hereticus and the grey knights arent going to be entirely comfortable with the whole arrangement but what if it was a radical inquis. that my lord was in contact with?
Could a once proud set of (templar orientated marines) been so disgusted by their orders or the actions of the inquis. that their rage had driven them to join the WE and now they observe the error in their corruption and realise the Imperium is the better of two evils?
Last edited by Mercurious; June 11th, 2006 at 13:02.
It's a good idea, but sadly, I don't think WH40K religion would like that.
Those marines would blatantly be purged, and THEN forgiven.
The great thing about your post is that it highlights the difference between World Eaters and Black Templars, the colour of their armour.
But, I think that World Eaters are a lot more pure and honest in their faith. What I mean by that is that, the WE wouldn't be bothered by the machinations of the other legions = Traitor or Loyalist.
Kharn butchered everyone earning his title, all he cares about is violence.
I don't think that the WE would sully the purity of their desires for a second by paying hommage to a rotting corpse.
I think your idea may be possible, but not with WE or Khorne inspired marines.
It would more likely happen to a Chapter who are dabling on the edges of what is heretical, toying with the idea before wanting to return to the loving fold of the emperor, only to realise that they're further gone than they realise.
Of course, Marines falling to Chaos is a given. That's the beauty of Chaos though, it's very much a one way ticket. And even if you do repent, it'll cost you your life.
Also, if you've read the fluff, it's clear that the chaos powers know more about the imperium that meets the eye, including various whispers on Mars etc etc.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
It's entirely in character for Khornate troops to do battle with the legions and daemons of other Chaos Gods - the inability of the Chaos Legions to set their personal desires aside for the benefit of Chaos as a whole is probably one of the biggest reasons why the Legions haven't been able to mount a Crusade with the power to eliminate the Imperium yet. The Chaos Gods are single-minded about what they want from their followers and generally aren't willing to compromise. Also, Khorne absolutely despises Slaanesh, and their legions fight each other more or less on principle anyways. All said, I see no reason why your particular Chaos force couldn't hate other Chaos and try to eliminate them.
Redemption with the Imperium seems very, very unlikely to me. The flavor text at the bottom of pages 16 and 23 of the BGB say a little something about how the Inquisition (and the Imperium in general) regard traitors:
"A Heretic may see the truth and seek redemption. He may be forgiven his past and will be absolved in death. A Traitor can never be forgiven. A Traitor will never find peace in this world or the next. There is nothing as wretched or hated in all the world as a Traitor." - Instructum Absolutio
Many of the Traitor Legion members are the very same marines who turned their backs on the Emperor at the height of the Horus Heresy and ultimately led to his death. I'm not sure if even the most radical Inquisitor would countenance the idea of trusting a Chaos Marine about anything, let alone taking one as an ally in military affairs. Since nearly the entire purpose of the Inquisition is to eliminate Chaos anywhere that it is found, most Inquisitors would jump at the chance to meet a Chaos Marine envoy to "discuss an alliance" and then set a trap to exterminate said envoy. That said, there are some very radical Inquisitors out there, and I can imagine at least one or two agreeing to put your Berzerkers near the bottom of the death list if you fight other Chaos forces very often. I don't think they would buy a story of repentance from said Berzerkers, though - these units are physically marred by Chaos, permanently obsessed with slaughter, and even if they had the spiritual capacity to hold an honestly faithful thought about the Emperor of Man, they could never hold the exclusively faithful thoughts that would be required for true repentance because Khorne has become such an integral part of their minds, bodies, and souls.
In short, it would take a lot of very hard fluff-writing work, and there are more than a few obstacles to this angle. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try, though.
I don't think it's doable. It might sound a great idea but Chaos marines are mentally not capable anymore to see the light of the imperium. I'm sure Khorn makes sure that doesn't happen.
DonÂ´t mess with the dicegod
Chaos space marines fight each other all of the time. Whether it's for hatred, revenge, or power. The World Eaters would probably ask why should they worship the Emperor to fight?
"DICE FOR THE DICE GOD!"
And the almighty Dice God said to his followers "Thou shalt not speak ye words "anything but a one" For thou whoever'st speaketh this blasphemy will be cursed with thy rolls being of one".
No not going to happen, Khorne owns there souls, some of them are the same marines that rebelled durning the Heresy and 10,000 years of hate has a way of warping someones mind...Originally Posted by MercuriousThe difference is that they get there 'strength' through khorne, there whole belif system is blood for the blood god. your right on that account there khorne doesnt care where the skulls come from as long as they add to his throne but you have to remember the chaos legions despise the Emperor and the Imperium. they see him as a week willed fool who claimed all the Warmasters victories as his own. They see him as a hypocrite who will willing to wage war in the galazy to re-claim it. he wasnt willing to go all the way....A WE chaos lord isnt going to suddenly have a pontifie about who is his killing for, he just wants to rip people appart. You have to remember that alot of WE where subjected to physco- sugery and turned into homocidle maniacs before they even turned to chaos, and that there primarchs gene-seed has a predisposition for mindless carnage and voilence. and sence a marine is decended from his primarchs gene-seed....Lets face it what difference would it make to the berzerkers if they exchange the blood god for the emporer and fight against the other chaos, khorne still gets his skulls and my WE lord feels a lot better about who and what hes fighting for. Also the plenty of other SM chapters who lust for blood and flesh and can seen to be just as brutal in battle.when found out the inqisitor would be killed no questions asked as he was trafficing with chaos, and thats the gravest of sins in the imperium almost as bad as not worshiping the Emperor as the God of mankindWe all know that the imperium gets awfully jumpy about the smallest of rituals and weve seen before how an argument of such practises can result in a rebllion, look at badab? C
Obviously the ordo hereticus and the grey knights arent going to be entirely comfortable with the whole arrangement but what if it was a radical inquis. that my lord was in contact with?Very doubtful, with chaos its a one-wat ticket. its not like you can try it out for a little while and decide that its not for you and turn back. once the chaos gods have your soul you are screwed end of story....so honestly I cant see some BT's trying out chaos for a while and going well... the imperium really isnt that bad, lets give it another shot.Could a once proud set of (templar orientated marines) been so disgusted by their orders or the actions of the inquis. that their rage had driven them to join the WE and now they observe the error in their corruption and realise the Imperium is the better of two evils?
And you have to remember with chaos, its a sickness of the soul. the gods get into your head and change your thought paterens. when the traitor legions rebelled they all thought they where doing the right thing. each one had a reasion for rebelling and could justify it. but in the end they where just pawns of the chaos gods. even Horus himself thought he was the Master of chaos, and even told the Emperor himself that he had Mastered chaos, but the Emperor knew he was just a pawn and thats what the gods wanted Horus to believe that he had Mastered them because it helped them with there plans for him to believe that.
not a bad idea honestly. but I just cant see it happening fluff wise
FluffMaster on a mission to turn people to the Sisters of battle, yes folks it's all about SoB squads in Repressors with lots of flamer templates for the win.
I'd say it's a question of wants..
Chaos alters everything it touches, including the minds of its followers.
After a few years wallowing in the blood of their enemies, feeling the thrill of hacking apart a horde of guardsmen in a khorne inspired ecstatic fury, they aren't going to want to go back. The thrill of killing will have become the only thing they live for.
If you were talking about undivided marines who had not yet recieved a mark of chaos, well, then I could almost believe it. But a mark of chaos is eternal.. it's like branding cattle, and the god who owns you (literally) is not going to let you go.
Right that is all true and im inclined to follow that school of thought.
However im now just playing the devil's advocate, Angron the primarch of the world eaters only betrayed the imperium because he hated the emporer. This was due to the fact that Angron was leading a rebellion of gladiators against their cruel slave masters and was forcibly teleported from the final conflict by the Emporer thus leaving his comrades to a cruel fate. From that point Angron despised the Emporer for his lack of compassion to the men alike. Secondly WE berxerkers are frothing mad men for two reasons, firstly they have the mark of khorne and more importantly they all have surgical implants which highten their agressive nature making them brutal and uncaring in battle. The emporer was furious at angron for modifying his troops in this fashion and sought to punish him perneantly for such a thing thus forcing angron to chaos.
What if the mark of khorne and this implant where one and the same? A small force of WE were exposed to some sort of EMP style thing which knocked these implants offline allowing them to think clearly?
If men are driven to chaos by a feeling of duty and righteousness and blindness in this case could these chaps have a reality check?
Again could they realise that once their agressive nature is removed that the imperium is the better of teo evils?
Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of WarShakespeare 'Julius Caesar'
Necrons 'Ancient' - 1000pts
World Eaters - 600pts
(including a Forge World dready booo yeah! :)
It's not just implants, it's also down to psychosurgery. Brain surgery which intentionally rewires the brain to increase aggression. There's no electronic parts involved there.Originally Posted by Mercurious
As for what a mark of chaos is, well, I don't want to compare fantasy and 40k, but in fantasy it is a literal mark on your body and soul, just like a supernatural cattle brand in fact.
It may not actually be a physical mark in 40k, though I'm not sure. But there's definately evidence that it's quite a serious thing.
Even after undergoing psychosurgery of their own, the Emperor's children had to seal their eternal pact with slannesh through a mass saccrifice in order to recieve the mark of Slannesh. This implies that a mark of chaos is a little more supernatural in nature than just brain implants.
Maybe if a small number of them (World Eaters) were traveling in the warp and then they got caught in a warp storm or something. The physcic backlash would enter their minds and show them the path to redemption........hey it could happen