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Well here I was wondering and what not about the chaos gods, when I came up with a minor question that has been on my mind a lot. You see chaos gods are created by millions of strong emotions (am I right?), so I noted some things first and foremost.
Why are there only 4 chaos gods? seems to me that there are a LOT of emotions that could have caused the birth of a chaos god. Like Despair, grief and pain, and god knows that there's enough of em to go around specialy in a billion worlds. Also if strong emotions creates a C.G. then would their counter parts create a god too? Can there only be "evil" gods or can good gods be created too?
If they are more gods in chaos, why dont they apear ANYWHERE?
Also I asked myself the question, if the chaos gods could revive lucius. Couldn't they have brought back horus? I mean that would have been the single greatest tactical move in history. (and before you tell me C.G dont think like that, there's tzeentch)
Thanks in advance for the answares.
If the war by heavens gate released desire
In the line of fire someone must have known
That a human heart demands to be admired
Cuz in the center of the universe we are all alone
Well.. there are only 4 gods.
The gods, supposedly, represent the most basic drives of all life. Most other concepts and emotions can be somehow distilled into one of their spheres.
To use your examples:
Despair or Grief: Both represent the pain of loss or the realization of hopelessness. For this reason, they are focused on entropy and decay. Nurgle.
Pain: Pain is a sensation. It is therefore part of the sphere of Slannesh. Nurgle also overlaps on pain I guess.
There are no good chaos gods, because even good emotions, taken to extremes, are not good. Being made only of emotion, chaos gods take everything to extremes. For example, evolution is good.. Until Tzeentch goes overboard with it.Well.. The Emperor didn't just kill Horus, he obliterated his warp presence entirely. I guess that was done specifically to prevent the Chaos gods from rebirthing Horus.Originally Posted by Whitewolf
The four Chaos Gods represent the most basic, raw, elemental emotions of humanity taken to perverse extremes. There are many emotions that are in ample supply in the worlds of the Imperium, yes, but these are what create the lesser Daemons and other warp entities, like the Enslavers and such. Only those four emotions/concepts (it wouldn't be enough to define them as simply emotions) are so deeply ingrained in every sentient warp-sensitive race that they would coalesce and create a godlike figure, hence you get the Four, which represent multiple concepts at once.
Khorne - Rage, Hatred, Pride, the Will to Dominate, Vengeance, Honor
Tzeentch - Change, Evolution, The Future, Fate, Hope, Magic, Scheming, Knowledge
Nurgle - Ruin, Decay, Entropy, Despair, Plagues, Life in Death
Slaanesh - Pleasure, Passion, Excess, Malice, Covetousness
Among other things. Every Chaos God has multiple dimensions - it's not as if all Khornate champions are frothing madmen and not all Slaaneshi are sadism incarnate, although when a particular emotion is taken to the incredible extremes that the Chaos Gods drive their followers to, it's not surprising that the end result is something horrifying and generally what we would classify as evil. However, the Chaos Gods themselves are technically not evil - they are simply acting out a predefined personality created by the emotions/concepts that they are made of. No other coalesced beings within the Warp have nearly the intensity or power necessary to create a god, though there is old fluff regarding the Star Child in which the Emperor's soul might one day ascend to godhood within the Warp, fuelled by the faith of the Imperium. You don't really hear much about it anymore, though.
As for Lucius, the reason why Slaanesh could revive him is because he still essentially has a presence in the Warp after he dies and he can return to another body through the favour of Slaanesh. However, his return is keyed to an emotion, specifically, triumph and this is the requirement for him to possess the new body and manifest himself once again. In a way Lucius is partially daemonic already. The reason why Horus could not be revived is because the Emperor unleashed a devastating psychic attack that utterly destroyed his presence in the Warp so the Chaos Gods couldn't bring him back even if they wanted to.
Besides, Chaos Gods just don't think that way.
They don't always do what is most tactically sound or what would make sense to a human intellect. Just look at the fluff for the Word Bearers - sometimes they omit heavy armour support entirely based on visions from a higher power. Even Tzeentch does things that are complex or contradictory and will only truly be understood when whatever plan he had in mind comes to fruition. Humans were not meant to understand gods and trying to do so has driven everyone who ever did insane.
EDIT: Damn, Giant_Mantis beat me to a few very important points. Even "good" emotions, when taken to extremes, become something else entirely.
Last edited by NiteRabbit; July 24th, 2006 at 16:22.
Their are 4 major chaos gods and 4 minor gods (I think), such as malal representented by the eight points of the chaos star. Along with the gods their are other presences in the warp that are worshipped, such as daemons and what not.
Xbox Gamertag: x Helbrecht x
I don’t think there are any minor Chaos gods; if there are, I haven’t heard about them at least. As for the Ruinous Four, there are really only four; Malal is not an official part of the 40k universe because the persons who invented Malal and therefore own the intellectual property to the character concept were not employed by Games Workshop, and so the company can’t include him in their official products for legal reasons. :hmm:Originally Posted by Helbrecht
As for the eight-pointed star, or chaosphere as it’s also called, I believe it is a symbol invented by the famous author Michael Moorcock for his ‘Elric’ novels, although some people seem convinced it is actually an ancient symbol of chaos magick though no proof can be found to support this claim. I don’t think the eight points were intended by Games Workshop to represent anything in particular, although some players say that the symbol in the 40k universe represents the nine Traitor Legions; four dedicated to each their god, four to Chaos Undivided, and finally the Black Legion at the centre of the whole structure, holding it together.
In truth, though, I think the eight-pointed star was merely chosen for its coolness factor.
"Girls are nice and cuddly on the outside, and freaky on the inside." ~ Lost Nemesis.
Well, there isnt much more to put in there, my fellow fluffmasters (and fluffmistress ) pretty much hit this one outta the ball park. Altho, I do believe there are many other ' warp enitites' not chaos gods still sleeping in the warp just waiting for the right time to awaken ( where do you think undivided chaos daeman princes come from?? ). Other then that well done you guys =o] ( damn me getting home late from work :cry: )Originally Posted by Grephaun
FluffMaster on a mission to turn people to the Sisters of battle, yes folks it's all about SoB squads in Repressors with lots of flamer templates for the win.
I do not think that there is any real world symbolism that matches the 8-pointed star outside Michael Moorcock's novel but there are striking similarities to various symbols in Buddhism, if memory serves. Gamewise, however, I've heard the analogy being used before. The 4 Chaos Gods and their respective Traitor Legions represent the 4 cardinal points while the 4 ordinal points (?) represent the four Legions dedicated to Chaos Undivided while the Black Legion is represented by either the centre, holding the whole thing together, or the circle that cuts around the 8 points, representing the fact that the Black Legion transcends and cuts across the borders of all the others and unifies them at the same time.
Well, as far as I can acertain, there IS a quite prominent good warp deity.
He was pretty big in the fluff a few years ago, till GW killed him off in an old campaign.
He doesn't do much these days, he's effectivly been written out. He hangs around Terra, and does various things for the Imperials.
Joking aside, the Emperior does sound a great deal like a god. His powers and avatarisation seem quite typical of anything the chaos gods can do. From what I've seen though, as the nasty emotions are stronger typically, volume of imperials more or less makes them equal.
In the old Shaman fluff, the creation of the Emperor sounds a LOT like a deamonic summoning. A greaat blood sacrafice was certainly made, when the shamans commited mass suicide.
You could always go with one of those simpler reasons for the eight pointed star: eight major directions pointing that chaos is everywhere...Originally Posted by Grephaun
Take my love, take my land, take me to where I cannot stand; I don't care I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
"The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time."- Lorgar
Member of the Fluff Masters Clan
From memory, this was the actual reason given in WHFB Realm of Chaos (the one with the glossy cover and the chaossphere).Originally Posted by darkreever
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