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Is it possible to create a chapter (fluffwise) that is like a renegade/pirate chapter. Not devoted to a chaos god but not serving the emperor? would it work to use space marine rules instead of chaos? i was thinking of creating such a chapter but i dont know anything about fluff really. the traits used would be "faithful unto death" (they are obviously very small not being able to produce more geneseed and "aspire to glory" (for obvious reasons)
thanks in advance
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The Astral Claws (now the red corsairs) are such a force.
They were part of the Badab Uprising (as I understand) and are now hiding out, raiding the imperium for supplies.
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Well theres the Wolf Brothers SM chapter (not all of them were killed you know), that I play using SW and Sm rules/codex.Originally Posted by gen.nehring
Also the Soul Drinkers Chapter, if you read the books, you'll know
But the Astral Claws are devoted to Chaos. They worship them all. Like the black legion. The soul drinkers got screwed over, they werent a renagade chapter until the Inq. poked its nose in their business. The wolf brothers were all killed. They all turned into wulfen. And the DH came like they always do and kill all the chapter like in the case of the Flame Falcons. So yes its possible but a chapter cant really last forever. They will eventually die out. It would depend on how renagade your chapter is. If you were doing Soul Drinkers I would use chaos marines, becaue they are mutated in some ways. But if you want a renagade chapter just use the drawback Faithful until Death. To show they are almost gone.
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Originally Posted by gen.nehring
Yes there are a few renegade chapters out there that are not devoted to chaos. I believe the sons of malice are not chaos yet, the steel cobras ' they where branded heritics by the inquisiton because they worshiped the emperor as a animal totem' the Asteral/Tiger claws at first where not chaos but eventually regressed and started to worship chaos undivided, and there are rogue units and marines out there altho these are in the extreme minority as the chapters screening process and conditioning eliminates most of these people. altho nothing is perfect. If the chapter is just reciently gone rogue, I would use the marine codex, anf if they have been rogue for a while, I would use the chaos marine codex.. good luck and I believe this is such a neat idea...=o]:shifty: :yes: :shifty:
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The guys who have already answered are correct; there are such things as renegade marine chapters. For whatever reason these chapters have shunned the rule of the Emperor and been declared excommunicatus for their sins. It is important to note these marine are not always heretics; they have not all turned to the dark powers but have rebelled for other reasons including:
- They have taken on some other religion, possible a xenos-based one.
- They have overstepped the boundaries of their duty to the emperor. For example, by attempting to lead the government of a planet they have recently freed from the forces of the xenos/heretic. Many important Imperials would consider this chapter renegade – A Chapter’s sacred duty does not usually include controlling multiple planets, despite the fact that some SM chapters (most notably the Ultramarines) have vast empires over which they rule.
- The Adeptus Ministorum could have declared their religious beliefs unsuitable. Many Chapters do not regard the Emperor as a God but as a patriarch figure, or they may worship their Primarch above the Emperor. Adeptus Ministorum officials do not take kindly to this and can them push to have the chapter declared renegade.
- The chapter has truly shunned Imperial rule and set out to carve its own existence without the divine light of the Emperor.
Perhaps the most famous renegades are from the chapter formally known as the Astral Claws. They were charged with responsibility of guarding an area called the Maelstrom - a huge warp/real space overlap that is occupied by pirates and numerous Ork empires. At some point, several centuries into this guarding duty, the chapter master ordered his fleet to attack another Imperial fleet entering the area. He also opposed the Adeptus Mechanicus’ gene seed checks. It turned out the chapter master (Huron, but referred to in Imperial history books as the Tyrant of Badab) had an unquenchable lust for power and a lack of devotion to mankind, so he and his Chapter were declared renegade.
The whole incident led to what is referred to as the Badab Uprising, in which three other chapters (the Mantis Legion, Lamenters and Executioners) pledged their allegiance to the Astral Claws and a huge war between numerous SM chapters kicked off. The Imperium slowly defeated the renegades (it took them several decades!), almost completely destroying the Lamenters in the process. It finished with 200 of the Astral Claws escaping into the Maelstrom alongside their Chapter Master. The three chapters who pledged allegiance to the Astral Claws were investigated and found not to be beyond redemption. They were punished by having to forfeit control of their homeworlds to the loyal chapters who fought them and being sent across the galaxy on penitent crusades. Since then the Astral Claws have changed their name and are now known as the Red Corsairs. They now act as huge, genetically engineered pirates and associate with assorted filth, such as the Lost and the Damned.
To represent a renegade chapter, I would use the codexM list and write fluff around your chapter detailing how they became renegade. Some of the CSM lists (possibly the Alpha Legion rules?) might also work. Your models could use a mixture of SM and CSM parts to make them look a little less Imperial. However, if they have been declared excommunicatus despite the fact they still worship the emperor, you might want to maintain the Imperial look. As you have said, your marines will be few in number as they will have some difficulty recruiting. The same could be said for some of the more advanced marine tech - such as dreadnoughts.
Hope this helps mate. Good luck with the chapter.
To clarify the status of existing rogue chapters.
The Sons of Malice are most likely chaos worshippers, though noone knows for sure. They perform crazed cannibalistic saccrifices to some unknown patron, who I doubt is anything pleasant or nice. They merely hate all other chaos forces.
The 'fill in the gaps' story is that they serve Malal, but Malal cannot be mentioned in the official fluff.
The Astral Claws/Red Corsairs serve chaos undivided. They don't actually need most of the supplies they raid from the Imperium. They fight against the Imperium for the glory of the chaos gods.
The Steel Cobras seem most like what gen.nehring is looking for. They still venerate the Emperor, but their beliefs are seriously divergent. They believe they worship the Emperor through the worship of a snake-totem from the tribal religion of their homeworld.
The problem is really the mental conditioning. Space marines are psychologically indoctrinated beyond what we humans can imagine. Most would happily lay down their lives for their beliefs. Having a chapter who is mercenary or piratical for the sake of being mercenary or piratical doesn't really make sense. What does a space marine do with wealth?
I think you can have non Imperial chapters. But they need a real cause, they need a definate moral or psychological reason to have broken off. They won't just have left because they don't really give a damn, or wanted to make a quick buck elsewhere.
Actually much can be attained by Piratical attacks, (iv based much of my Chaos Legion on being Piratical) for one you can steal technology, supplies weapons vehicles and Ships, while a Chaos Legion doesnt technically "need" all of this stuff (you can probably make it, or if worse came to worse "buy" it from another legion, probably the Iron Warriors) but having extra stuff is always nice, and "Wealth" can be traded with shady members of the Imperium willing to deal with Renegades Pirates anc Chaos, so an SM Chapter who goes Renegade without being Chaos and being "Piratical" would probably be driven by greed and selfishness, its not impossible, just look at the Iron Warriors, yes though they are Chaos, they are almost totally motivated by Selfishness. so it would be uncommon but possible.Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis
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There's another point that needs to be said.
Very few renagedes of the Imperium have any chance of surviving. Particularly SM's. The =I= is simply going to hammer down on them. It might change depending on the nature of their going rogue, but the point remains. The Imperium doesn't like heretics.
You'd be surprised how willing the inquisition is to let smaller renegade chapters run around. They have MUCH bigger problems to worry about - it's not their job to kill space marines, it's to root out heresy within th Imperium - they'll usually just let the space marine chapters with the same geneseed as the heretics deal with the renegades, as said space marines will be obsessed with remove the pollution in their seed.Originally Posted by harlequin2262
As has been said, marines need a justification, and a big justification, to overcome their psycho-indoctrination. They don't care for wealth, or stealing technology, or greed - they're born to be soldiers, ultimate soldiers, and they don't just think "a lot of stuff around them is nice" - gluttony and splendour is a chaos trait.
One thing that many marines suffer from is pride. The honour of the chapter is a BIG thing to them - you insult a chapter's honour, and you may as well put a round through your head, as it'll be a lot less painful than what the space marines will do to you. It's quite often that the Imperium will inadvertently insult the chapter, through it's faceless bureaucracy or greater goals - i.e. taking a chapter's sacred artefact, letting one of it's institutions on the same operation as the SM have different goals. That could spread to a chapter clashing with one of the Imperial institutions, and consequently being declared excommunicate and renegade without a choice.
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