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I'm thinking of starting a SM army, but was wondering if it would be able to make them a relatively small group of mercenaries, or if that completely ruins the whole point of Space Marines.
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I was thinking of them as being a secret organisation, with it's origins unknown. It suddenly appeared in the Horus Heresy to fight alongside the Emperor against Horus, but then suddenly dissappeared again. No-one knows much about them apart from they're clad in black and red armour (until I decide on a final paint job ).
They are willing to fight anyone for the right price, even fellow Space Marine companies. However, they are still loyal to the Emperor, so fighting fellow Emperor-followers would cost a lot, whereas fighting enemies such as the forces of Chaos they would do very cheaply.
They also just wonder around the universe, fighting random battles and helping where help is needed.
A thought I've had is that they are made up from lots of different Space Marine companies, through just wanting to join or thought to be dead but were rescued etc
Overall, they are good guys that fight for the Emperor and the Imperium. They will fight nearly race, any company, and mutant, but for a price (which may be arms, ammo, gene-seed......). When I think about it, in some ways they seem like the A-Team lol
So would this work, or not? I know SM are supposedly goody-to-shoes (sp) (), but I don't want mine to be like the rest. I want mine to be different. Also I could make good fluff about them that way.
I was wondering who would hire them though. There aren't idiots like Bush or Blair () to hire them. Could they be hired by Space Marines or Chaos or Eldar, or wouldn't that make sense?
This also led me onto wondering how all the different races speak. Do 'nids just wort of growl, and what do Tau and Necrons sound like?
Last edited by PaRaSiTe_X92; August 24th, 2006 at 23:09.
There are more than a few rogue Space Marine chapters lurking about the Imperium with questionable loyalties that might fit nicely into what you're looking for. For one we have the Legion of the Damned, those skull and fire guys that opo up from time to time to randomly help Imperial forces when they're in trouble.Those guys aren't really mercenaries though, as they tend to always intervene on the side of Order. We also have the Red Corsairs, formerly the Astral Claws. These guys are like Space Marines turned pirate. They're all about looting and hijacking and care less about the chaos gods and more aboy simply stealing stuff. They're made up of mostly Baddab War survivors but often times rogue Space Marines from other chapters end up in thier ranks.They tend to lean a bit towards Chaos, but if the price was right I doubt they'd refuse to help an Order army, but the price tag would be pretty high. Lastly we have the fallen Dark Angels, who tend to work without any real motives. Sometimes they show up and help the forces of Order, and sometimes they show up to fight alongside the Disorder bunch, nobody really knows why they do what they do.
As far as creating an all new rogue Marine force I don't really see too much of a problem.. just don't expect any loyal Marines to tolerate thier presence, or any members of the Inquisition. The way the Imperium sees it, you're either with them, or against them, there's no happy medium.Also there is a flaw in your fluff idea. See in order for your gang to have existed during the Horus Heresy they would have to be one of the tow missing legions, whichs is generaly frowned upon by fluff maniacs and considered rather cheap and unoriginal by everyone else.Also if your lot was still loyal to the Emperor, then they wouldn't be selling thier services to anybody else.Like I said, you're either all Imperial, or a damn dirty heretic.
Last edited by Edicius; August 25th, 2006 at 01:10.
I personally say it does, but others may disagree.. The whole theme of space marines for me is about heroic (or antiheroic in the chaos of chaos) champions who fight for a cause greater than themselves. Being a mercenary kind of runs counter to that.Originally Posted by PaRaSiTe_X92
There's also the question of how you pay a space marine. He essentially doesn't need anything, except a supply of nutrient enriched food and the occasional injection of hormones. He can't just walk down to the shops and buy a new TV, so I doubt wealth means very much to him.
Rogue marines.. now that's a different story. There are plenty of fluff examples there. But marine mercenaries sound a bit odd.If they're not grade A follow-the-rules loyalists, then they couldn't be hired by space marines. Space marines are the kind of people who'd shoot you for not tying your shoes correctly, let alone occasionally running off and fighting for the enemy.Originally Posted by PaRaSiTe_X92
Then again, if they still venerate the Emperor at all I doubt any chaos forces beyond the most pragmatic and manipulative would be able to hire them. Chaos marines have had 10,000 years to brood and learn to hate loyalists. They aren't very friendly towards them.
I can't even see Eldar doing it, because it's not how they work. They manipulate their enemies anyway, but they don't do it by hiring them and letting them fight in their armies, they do it by setting things up so that they pan out exactly the way they're supposed to. Also, they're spectacularly arrogant.. they'd saccrifice billions of human lives to preserve a small number of eldar ones. Fighting for them is going to be very dangerous.Nids hiss a bit when fighting, apparently, but otherwise make no sound at all. They are effectively all the same being, so they don't need to communicate very often. It would be like me talking to my leg.Originally Posted by PaRaSiTe_X92
Necrons are also silent, unless you believe some black library stuff in which the lords can talk. However, most necrons just shuffle silently forward killing anything they come across.
Tau have their own language. There was a flash preview on the GW website a while back in which they had some being spoken. It sounds fairly cool.
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; August 25th, 2006 at 01:20.
Well, Space Marines don't need wealth for personal use, but they need a lot of support equipment. Replacement parts for their armour, vehicles, food for themselves, food for their servants, servants, gear for their servants, ammunition, fuel, space ship parts.... any of these could be bartered in exchange for a mercenary band's forces. Of course, that presents a problem in that Space Marine technology tends to be a bit superior to standard human technology and so there's the issue of if a rogue chapter without the support of Mars could maintain their gear for very long. Some rogue chapters appear to exist and maintain their stuff, but it is a concern.
I see very little problem with mercenary Marines. A friend of mine made a very cool army of Mercenaries- not Marines, but Mercs nonetheless. He used Ork Codex rules to represent everything (Orky poor BS suggested the poor condition of their equipment) but substituted any models he wanted to paint. It was tres cool.
i think that more of a renegade army that occasionally sells them selves for hire would be cool, but as others have posted, not all would hire them
if they lean to one side at all(or are even neutral)neither chaos or imperium will hire them so theres 3 armies down(sm, ig and chaos)
eldar wouldnt do that, as previously posted
nids want to eat ALL living matter
necros want to kill ALL libing matter
tau MIGHT do it, but they most likely wont, as the though of"hmmm, give you, the second most feared army OUR technology, which is superior to yours, i think not" adn the ethereals wouldnt go with some renegades so easily
and orks would fight them, not caring if they worked for them or not(why would they accept tech from the orks anyway?)
i think that covers all of the armies, please correct me if i missed one
I was mainly thinking of a Renegade/Mercenary Legion because my main enemies will be Ultramarines and 8th Cadian, and I don't think they would keep fighting for no reason at all.
The Fallen Dark Angels sound most what I am looking for. Just randomly fighting battles, with not always a reason. The mercenary bit would be if they were given supplies / arms / ammo / food(or whatever they have ) to fight extra battles, if there was a major battle.
I was wondering; I know it would be against SM honour and all that, but if there was a really big SM vs Chaos battle, and the SM were outnumbered and losing, then why couldn't thier leader hire these people. OK, you're supposed to die for the Emperor, but maybe they wer pretecting something so powerful that they had no choice?
And as all the different races only really communicate with each other, then maybe mine are only hired by SM or IG or Chaos?
As far as the Horus Heresy idea, I'll scrap it, as you said, it doesn't really work. What about being made up during and after the HH, but not fighting until hundreads (maybe thousands) of years after HH. They became by renegade Marines joining their secret order, or rescuing Marines from near death mid-battle etc.
Another thing I've just thought of is that they have a big goal. Something like the Imperium shunned them for being renegades, and they strongly need to get a new base and get respect (or something) for them, so they're not looked as at just another SM renegade bunch. They battle to try and get a planet to call home, defend it, expand etc. They also want a gene-seed So this will end in a lot of battles, so that's where the mercenary part comes in; they need supplies, and lots of them.
What do you all think?
I'm not sure what direction the original topic has gone in at the moment, but with response to the original topic, I would say that mercenary Marines do exist, but not ones that are loyal to the Imperium. However, not all Traitor Marines serve Chaos - there is a group called the Damned Company of Lord Caustos that was falsely accused of heresy and is now on the run from the Imperium. Unfortunately, they don't really have the resources necessary to resupply and continue their existence (geneseed being the most important) so they are willing to fight for pretty much anyone who is able to give them the equipment they need. Ammo, parts, equipment, vehicles, as long as the price is right. So I think you're second idea is a bit more plausible. Not sure how aliens would get Imperial equipment/spare parts/geneseed, though.
Number one, remember that the Warhammer 40K galaxy contains way more players than is represented by our Codicies. There are an infinite number of tiny factions who might want to hire mercenaries.
Regarding who might hire mercenaries, I don't think its as cut-and-dry as some of you think.
Firstly, not all Imperial Commanders are all that honest or faithful. The idea of Space Marines hiring mercenaries is a bit silly, but Imperial Guard commanders are doing things they aren't supposed to be doing (like hiring KROOT mercenaries) all the time. Also, radical Inquisitors might hire extra-Imperial forces if in dire need (although if ever seen fighting against the Imperium they would probably respond rather violently. Don't cross Inquisitors.)
Chaos is chaotic, and by its very nature to try and say all Chaos would do something the same way is wrong. Some chaos commanders might hire them, some might not. Red Corsairs might certainly hire mercenaries if they needed them, and it may not even be such a soul-sucking deal to bargain with them.
Eldar might conceivably hire mercenaries, especially if it leads to Eldar lives being saved and human lives being lost.
Tau also might. In fact, one of the main principles of the Tau background is that they will work with anyone who supports the greater good. They have alliances with Kroot, Vespids, Demiurge, and others, so why not Space Marines? There is quite a lot of background evidence of Tau giving away their simpler technology as a way of enticing people to join their empire.
Orks might conceivably hire them, although it would have to be a very unusual situation as Orks don't have much to give that others would want (indeed, most ork technology wouldn't work for anyone else anyway) and I'm not sure most orks would be psychologically capable of understanding the appeal of letting someone else fight for them. But its possible.
Basically the way I see it, get on Games Workshop's site and download their rules for the Kroot Mercenaries list. Any army that is willing to hire Kroot Mercenaries would be willing (background-wise) to hire any other mercenary.
HOWEVER, I'm a big opponent to mixing armies. Ruleswise, I'd say you must play a straight army list or at worst (and I still don't care for it) multiple detachments. Just because Tau give your mercenaries a Star Cruiser air purifier doesn't mean they'll pay them in rail guns, and just because Eldar are trying to use your mercenaries to reduce their own burden doesn't mean you get a Howling Banshees squad in the middle of your Space Marine army.
As long as you stick to the rules, nearly anything can be justified in the background.
How about the Space Marine chapter has been cut off from the Imperium for a long time by warp storms and have been forced to resort to hiring their services just to keep themselves supplied with food, air, water, fuel and spares? The Chapter Master might reason that the survival of the chapter is more important than temporally losing honour. After all, it wouldn't be permanant, just until the storms end and they can rejoin the proper fight against mankinds enemies. If surrounded by strong and not very friendly neighbours, the chapter wouldn't be able to get hold of the resources they need by the usual methods of persuasion, demands or piracy. A chapter is only a thousand strong afterall and not capable of sustained, unsupported operations.
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