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Hello all. I'm new to 40k and to the forums as well. Ever since I became aware of 40k, I've had an ingrained love of the Space Marines. They were also my army of choice in Dawn of War, and I've never seriously considered playing any other army in tabletop. Once I read the space marine codex, nothing would do but that I create my own chapter with custom paint scheme, which I freely admit is based entirely off of my Dawn of War paint scheme. (White armor, Golden highlights, Black shoulderpads, red eyes, Dark Angel heraldry.)
The original idea was for the chapter to be called the Seraphim, with models borrowing liberally from the Black Templar line. The basic idea was a Chapter who worshipped the emperor with all their hearts, and whose bywords were strength, nobility, fearlessness, and piety. Almost like Paladins. I was surprised to learn that generally chapters don't worship the Emperor as Divine, but surely all 1000 chapters can't have the same spiritual beliefs.
With the above sketchy fluff I have no problem, but then I learned that SM armies could field units of Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters as allies, and their pious beliefs and undying fidelity fit well with my original ideas. So, for the past couple of days I've been toying with the following fluff ideas, but my knowledge of the mighty fluff is still thin, so I come to this forum to ask for guidance.
The rough idea goes something like this:
Some time after the Horus Heresy the Seraphim were founded with the specific goal of being a sword for the Ordo Malleus, created to destroy the Empire's deadliest enemies: the servants of Chaos. While they are still autonomous in the manner of other chapters, a large portion of their activities occur at the specific direction of the Ordo. When the Ordo needs space marines, the Seraphim would be among the first they call. I figure their gene-seed could come from either the same place as the Grey Knights, or from the Grey Knights themselves.
As time passed from the Seraphim's founding they also forged strong ties with the Ordo Hereticus, as rogue psykers are just as deadly a threat as Chaos. This modification in direction came from within the chapter itself, the argument being that rogue psykers are little more than appendages of Chaos. This connection is less formal than their connection to Malleus. Ordo Xenos is considered to be clearly outside the mandate of the Seraphim.
If the above is fine, the sticking point comes in that I wanted the chapter to have both Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle as permanent members, making up some portion of their Companies. I've heard however that the GK would never countenance this, and I don't know what the sisters' views would be. Is this feasible? If not, what about filing down the insignia on GK models and calling them something like "Paladins?" An elite division of First Company that uses the GK rules but are for fluff purposes different? If true Sisters of Battle would not join on a permanent basis, would such a solution work for them as well? Is there a reason other than tradition that a Chapter would never accept female inductees? Or that SoB would never work outside the Ordo? (The Chapter is headquartered on Ophelia VII, by the way.) Would it make a difference that, for all intents and purposes, this chapter is an arm of the Ecclesiarchy? If not, would either group accept being on permanent detachment? (Permanently stationed with the Chapter, but still nominally under the direct control of their respective Ordos)
I realize that both groups would likely have nothing to do with a chapter that did not worship the Emperor as Divine, but that has been in my backstory from the beginning. My chapter may not get Faith Points like sisters do, but we too feel that we are the Emperor's Chosen, created to do His will. I guess the main thing I'm asking is, what are the problems with the above backstory and how can I surmount them? Should I just write the whole thing off as a bad idea and use DH and WH allies as normal? Please keep in mind that a key aspect of the chapter is that they were created almost as a bridge between the Adeptus Astartes and the Ecclesiarchy.
Anyway, I'm sorry that this post is so long. I just wanted to make sure I covered the problem from all angles, and included some solutions that had come to mind. As I said before, I am relatively unschooled in the backstory of 40k (though I've read the 4th ed sections) and I figured this would be the place to come for help. Any way, please have at it, and thank you again for all of your assistance. If you have any questions, just ask.
A few quick thoughts, the general fluff of the "emperor as divine" SM chapter is okay.
Attempting to tie them to one of the ordos, or the ecclesiarchy is troublesome, as much of this fluff is already extant (grey knights) , and the ecclesiarchy is by imperial edict, not allowed to have "men under arms" which is why the sisters exist.
Fluff purists would also have difficulty with the marine chapter's homeworld of Ophelia VII, since this is the sister's primary homeworld.
Baby, when I'm the voice of reason, we've got problems!~artificerSomeone should stop
Jervis "let's make it easy enough for a 3 year old to play" Johnson
before he turns 40k into checkers~anon
The Seraphim aren't really a chapter of Spacemarines. They are women trained to fight heretics. Women can not become Spacemarines, because they have different hormones from males.
The different Ordos have all their own troops:
Ordo Hereticus have got the Seraphim/Battle Sisters/Adepta Sororitas/Bolter *****es.
Ordo Malleus have Grey Knight Spacemarines that rumour to have come from the Emperor himself, which is impossible, since the Emperor has got no geneseed.
Ordo Xenos have the Alienhunters. And they will be getting their own codex soon IIRC.
So basically, you can adjust your fluff so the marines do work for one of the Ordo's but indirectly. Sort of like the Black Templars self-proclaimed penance campaign against all evil. Or the Dark Angel's quest to find all the fallen (gotta catch them all!)
I'll go out on a wild goose chase here if you don't mind.
I think you're a little mistaken there, he's calling his chapter the Seraphim, not using Seraphim a la Battle Sisters.
Purists would scowl at having the chapter recieveing its geneseed from the GK. The Grey Knights are supposed to be ultra secret. Maybe try from a very pure geneseed stock, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, or if no one objects, sometimes under certain circumstances, maybe Emperor's Children. (I like the EC idea)
The GK and SoB's are independent from the rest of the imperium (to an extent), and having them permantly incorporated into your chapter will bring up a huge no-no. I simply think the best way to represent their ties is to simply always take allies. Legal and still fluffy.
Your homeworld should be near Ophelia VII, not on it. Just to be safe.
Again, after the Reign of Blood by Vandire, the Ecclesiarchy is not allowed to maintain its own military. Saying that the chapter is an arm of the Ecclesiarchy is therefore not a good idea. (Instead of the Hereticus helping you, they'd hunt you down)
I'm sorry if your original idea wouldn't work, but many of the fluff enthusiasts here would scorn you into oblivion.
Don't get me wrong, you can use your idea at home with friends, but it won't flow over well with others.
Just ask more questions if they come up...
That's alright. I knew a good deal of this might not work out. I may have over-played the "arm of the Ecclesiarchy" thing a bit. The chapter isn't truly such an arm, we just tend to spend most of our time helping them out. Not that we recieve special consideration from the Ordo, but they likely know that we will carry out their mission with a glad heart and bend all our faculties to assisting them, above and beyond what a normal chapter might do, even if compelled. As to the grey knight thing, I'll probably just file down the symbols and make them something different within my own chapter - any problems with that?
As to the SoB, I don't know what I'm going to do there. One unusual group of units within my own chapter I could accept, but two might be pushing it. I don't know. I'm not sure anyone answered this, but if my chapter were stationed in the Ophelia system, is there some way I could recruit SoB directly from Ophelia VII? Or equivalents to them? I still would like these women (or their equivalents) to be a permanent part of my force if possible, though I know that a chapter with women in it may strain the fluff beyond credibility. Could a few people address this point, please?
I'm more than willing to get my Gene Seed from wherever, the GK thing was just an idea I tossed out there. As to homeworld, is it a problem to come from the same place as the SoB? We are after all only a thousand men + functionaries. I figured we'd be on a small, wooded island. Actually, the "Headquarters" on ophelia VII was really supposed to be more of a small monastary where we have our roots. I think the Seraphim probably spend most of their time in fleets. Any problem with our first monastery (and therefore most holy site) being on Ophelia?
Anyway, thanks for all of the excellent responses so far. I know that with the help of the LO community, I can put together fluff to be proud of.
I remain in the Light of the Emperor, as always,
That's just the thing, to say that you have a Space Marine Chapter with female members is essentially 'breaking' the fluff. It says in both Index Astartes 1 and the Witchhunters codex that the physiology of the female body makes them unable to accept the Black Carapace, the thing that makes a SM a SM.
I'm not exactly the person to ask what you could do, but what I say is, create a 'list-entry' for them, as if you had your own chapters codex, then, post it and let people comment.
Make sure that you ask for suggestions so that if the idea is scrapped, you have something to fall back on.
I see nothing wrong with stationing on Ophelia VII, but purists might. Maybe you have a training center there, which is used alot, and your Headquarters is on Ophelia VI or VIII.
Yeah. Truly, I wasn't meaning to imply that these females were space marines. I know that the enhancements of a marine are keyed to male chromosomes or whatever, and I realize that the SoB do not have full use of their power armor. But then, I guess having non Space Marines in a SM chapter would just break the codex even more, huh? Maybe I'll just let the SoB go insofar as being a permanent part of my force, and content myself with my Paladins.
What do you say, purists? Could our original monastary be on Ophelia VII, or must I look elsewhere for a home? I find it rather odd that *every* monastary on a planet of cathedrals is dedicated to the SoB. But if that is the case, I will accept it. This has all been very helpful so far, so please continue to advise me as I try to get this ironed out.
"He who stands with me shall be my brother."
Using MalSeraph's idea of using EC Geneseed as the basis of the chapters stock I came up with this idea:
During the days of the great crusade just before Horus fell at Davin an expedition force of EC were at anchor over Deadworld (insert name here) when they came under attack from a group of eldar, who's farseers had forseen the legions involvment and decided to eliminate the force and lessen the number of marines able to turn to chaos. The legion was caught by surprise and fought valiantly but in the end it was not enough. The were all but destroyed, but admist the wreckage the vaults aboard the EC's battle barge that contained the precious geneseed survived and were caught in the planets gravity field and managed to safely come to rest upon the Deadworld and thought lost for millenia. Thousand of years later an Adeptus Mechanicus Explorator team came upon this world hoping to discover some arcane xenos technology but instead happened upon the armorerd vaults. Not recognizing the chapter sybols embossed upon the vaults sides the loaded it up on their ship to be taken back to Mars and examined. A spy for the Ordo Malleus recognized what the vaults contained and what legion it belonged to sent word to Titan for assistance. As they Mechanicus ships were en route to Mars the ship was boarded by a company of Grey Knights who eliminated the crew and destroyed the ship, but not before recovering the geneseed. The geneseed was brought back to Nemesis Tessera and the High Inquisitor Lords deemed for the uncorrupted geneseed to form a new chapter to guard against chaos in whatever guise it may take (traitors, cults, daemons, etc.) Having no official ties to the Ordo it enjoys close relationships with it, and is one of the few chapters to have knowledge of the Grey Knights, and the only to have regular contact. The GK watch over the newlyfounded chapter to see if it devolves like the rest of the marines who have borne the geneseed of Fulgrim.
Anyway, that ties it in to the daemonhunters and could tie it into the witchhunters if the Ordo hereticus everfound out about the source of geneseed. Who wouldn't keep an eye on a chapter created from the a fallen primarch? What to you think can you use it?
Xbox Gamertag: x Helbrecht x
I am not sure which parts I might use, but some pieces of it are quite interesting. Let me think on it for a bit.
I was just out smoking a cigarette when I was struck by a possible inspiration. Forget the Ordos, forget the Grey Knights (in name, anyway.) What about something like this, to explain the presence of grey knight-equivalent troops (my Paladins) in my army?
Shortly after the Heresy, the Seraphim were created to fight chaos in all its forms, wherever it might be found. (Gene-seed can be decided later.) The first command was given to...oh... let's call him Gaius Renatus, a man of great piety and unyeilding faith in the Divine Emperor. Gaius and the Seraphim fought the Chaos legions and their followers tirelessly for centuries, seeking them wherever they were to be found, and attacking and destroying them no matter the cost, no matter the odds. Their victories were glorious and many, but came at a high price. With each new battle the numbers of the Seraphim dwindled, with more members falling every year. Finally their losses were such that they threatened to destroy the chapter itself.
Brother Renatus was at a loss. He began to despair, knowing that the Seraphim had dealt many grevious wounds to Chaos, but that they must perforce cease their crusade for the time being, or be utterly destroyed. Though he knew that he and his men had done all that they could in the war against Chaos, he could not help but feel that he had failed. And so the Seraphim fleet was recalled to its home system (not the ophelia system), to repair, re-arm, and recruit.
Seeking guidance in this time of difficulty, Gaius made a pilgrimage to Ophelia VII, bastion of the Faith and second in holiness only to terra itself. In the temples and cathedrals and Septries he sought solace, but his soul would not be quieted, for he knew that unless something was done, the Seraphim would fall, and in so doing would fail in their duty to the Divine Emperor. Finally in his desperation he retreated to a small, wooded isle to fast and pray to the Emperor for guidance.
On the fourteenth day of his solitude he wandered into a clearing in the forest, containing a lone tree such as he had never seen before. Its leaves shimmered as burnished gold, and its trunk was smooth and white as ivory. Humbled by its majesty, he knelt before the tree and began to pray.
"Divine Emperor," he said, "we your servants need you now as we have never needed you before. Century upon century have we waged war upon the blight of Chaos, and in your name we have given them the Damnation they deserve. But for all our victories our numbers dwindle, our brothers die. We will fight to the last man before we stay the crusade against them, and fall with your name on our lips, but our deaths will be marred by the bitter knowledge that we may serve you no more. If it be your wish, I ask that this end not come to pass, and that we be allowed to smite your enemies until the end of days. Only show me a sign, that I might know your will."
As Gaius completed his prayer, he was struck by sudden inspiration as if by a bolt from the heavens. Suddenly in his heart he had the answers to his prayers. In his mind he saw a space marine clad in shining armor, on his arm a storm-bolter and in his hand a sword. His radiance was terrible to behold, and Caius knew that these men would be as a blade against the Darkness. He knew how to train them, how to arm them, and how to field them. He would call them Paladins, and by the Emperor's grace they would know no equal.
And so it came to pass that the Seraphim went from the brink of destruction to undreamed-of glory. But Gaius never forgot the vision given him, so he believed, by the holy Emperor himself. He told the Chapter of this great Sign, of the tree and the vision, and they were re-invigorated with a passionate zeal. To honor this great gift, the Chapter colors were re-made to be gold and white (from whatever they were before), and on that tiny island on Ophelia VII was built a Chapel with the blessed tree at its heart, the most holy site of the Seraphim Order.
Now the Seraphim once more carry the crusade to the forces of Chaos, their men filled with holy fervor and their leader ironclad in his faith. The Paladins lead the Chapter as a shining example, and all members hope for the honor of joining their ranks. Though the Seraphim were almost swallowed by Darkness, now the light of the Emperor girds their way against the night.
And so forth and so on. What do you think?
By the light of the Emperor,
Last edited by OSUMacbeth; August 30th, 2006 at 11:15.