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hi, my question for building an army around fluff is,
thousand sons, should have no mutations in the legion because of ahrimans spell, right? so im thinking fluff wise, that they shouldnt have access to a daemon prince...
yes i know they have the option to legally have one, in the 4th ed codex, but if you think about it for fluff would it be wrong to include one, as obviously a daemon prince has suffered mutations such as daemonic stature, daemonic flight etc which goes against the entire point of the spell,
but then again, if you read the short history of the 1ks, its said that magnus himself is now a daemon prince....
i asked Caluin who suggest i ask the fluff experts, but took the time to answer:
"However, it is my understanding that the Sorcerers themselves are not immune to Mutations - only the Rubrics. The Rubric was cast to stop the Mutation, which it does, but the Sorcerers of the Legion don't bear the Rubric Sign."
which sounds right, BUT, i always thought the spell took mutations away from EVERYONE regardless, its just those who didnt have psychic powers were additionally turned to dust,
i mean for any sorcerer model or artwork ever seen for the sons, none have a daemonic mutation of any kind...
Originally Posted by Cheredanine
Even if the sorcerors were made immune to mutation by the rubric, they had many years before the rubric was cast in which to mutate freely, so whether or not the rubric stopped mutation is irrelelvant.
Also, being a daemon prince isn't just being really mutated. It is literally an ascention to daemonhood. A daemon prince no longer has a truly physical body, it's all warp substance. He can't even die, only be banished to the warp where he doubtless has to explain his failure to his master. I don't think the rubric of ahriman stops thousand sons from being rewarded with daemonhood.
I agree with Mantis here. Ascention to daemonhood is different to mutation and so the rubric would not stop it. As such I think daemon princes do have a fluffy basis for inclusion in Thousand Sons force.Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis
Well, it seems the question about the effects of the Rubric of Ahriman is somewhat difficult to answer. If you read the index Astartes article on the Thousand Sons, it says that only non-psychic Marines were affected, and that the Rubric worked simply by turning the affected Marines into dust and thereby remove their mutations â€“ not exactly what Ahriman had in mind, but technically it worked. However, according to the article the Legionâ€™s Sorcerers were able to protect themselves from the Rubric and are therefore still of flesh and blood â€“ and mutations, which they carry proudly as tokens of Tzeentchâ€™s favour.
However, if you read the notes on Ahriman in the Chaos Space Marine Codex, it says that even though the Rubric did not touch the Sorcerers, only augmented their powers, Ahriman still claims to have been successful because the physical corruption of the Thousand Sons was halted. This I take to mean that the Legionâ€™s Sorcerers are protected from new mutations, but still preserve the ones they received before the Rubric.
However, in the end itâ€™s all an obsolete point, because Daemons Princes donâ€™t rely on mutation to become daemonic, at least not true mutation â€“ when a Sorcerer is made a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, he gains the ability to manipulate the material world to his liking, including his own former body. However, Daemon Princes, like all Daemons, are actually warp creatures, and so they donâ€™t actually need to preserve their own body but can summon themselves into any available body thatâ€™s not sufficiently protected, and then proceed to change that body to their own specifications.
If they really want to, Daemons can even possess machines, entirely negating the need for a body, or simply create matter from nothing if they have sufficient power to do so. So regardless of whether Thousand Sons sorcerers are really capable of mutations or not, they can always become Daemon Princes if such suits their patron, capricious as he is.
EDIT: Ah, and Mantis of course beat me to the critical point. Curse me and my verbose ramblings, I never get first post in threads around here. :rolleyes:
"Girls are nice and cuddly on the outside, and freaky on the inside." ~ Lost Nemesis.
all quality answers, cheers guys
Originally Posted by Cheredanine
I would say of course they can. As it has been said before assention to daemonhood isnt a mutation its a gift from there patrion god. Im not going to go into details as its already been said the who's and why's.... but I can't see no reasion why not.
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