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I'm currently in the process of writing the fiction for my Space Marine chapter and I'm attempting to put together the life of the founder and leader of my Chapter. However, there are some very specific questions about the fluff of Space Marine Chapters I need the answers to. I would be most grateful if the forum could assist me in this endeavor. I have many questions, so I doubt they'll all be answered, but any answers are better than none. Without further ado, here are the questions:
1) When a new chapter is founded, how is the new Commander selected? Does he come from the chapter from which the gene-seed is taken? Is he a particularly promising recruit who is given the command when he becomes a marine? Are there any special qualifications (apart from valor, courage, intelligence, etc) that are required?
2) Who might be allowed to stand before the Golden Throne? Is any Chapter commander granted this privilige? What about a commander who had shown uncommon valor in some way? For that matter, are Commanders ever allowed to stand before the throne at all? If Commanders can be granted this honor, what about particularly valorous Sergeants or lesser officers?
3) From where can a Chapter recruit? I know for example that some chapters recruit mainly from their homeworld, wherever that might be. What about Chapters who are mainly based in space? Is it permissable to recruit from multiple worlds? I have read for example that the Imperial Fists do some recruiting from Terra itself. Is this a special dispensation, or could any chapter recruit from there if they were of a mind?
4) I have heard of many classifications of worlds, such as "Deathworld", "Techworld", and so on. Can someone either point me to a list of the different types of worlds (with page-numbers) or perhaps list the most common types and their meanings?
5) I plan on having my Chapter recieve its gene-seed from the Imperial Fists. Is this a problem? If so, why? What determines where a new chapter derives its gene-seed from? Imperial fists fit my Chapter extremely well, with their piousness, humility, duty and valor.
6) Assuming I can recieve my gene-seed from the IF, I was planning on the Chapter having been created some time not too long after the Horus Heresy. Any problems here? Now that I think of it, can someone point me (either in a book or on the internet) to a time-line of the imperium? Most importantly, the time from shortly before the horus heresy to the present day?
7) How long do these space marines live? I'd like to have my chapter still led by the man who founded it, but if I remember my history correctly, this would make him at least serveral thousand years old, which even if possible is highly unlikely. In the event that he would be too old to believably still hold the command, is it feasible that he might have been interred in a Venerable Dreadnought? No longer in a leadership position, but still providing the Chapter with guidance and insight?
Anyway, I think that is the sum of my questions for now. Please allow me to thank you in advance for all of your answers, which I have always found to be insightful. I realize I am asking many things, but if I'm going to create a chapter, I want to do it right, and I am grateful for any help the LO community can provide.
Those who wish to read the rough backstory as it exists so far (a few paragraphs) can find it in this thread. (I'm making Chapter fluff, and don't want to muck it up. Please Help!) Bottom of the page, post #10. Keep in mind that pretty much nothing in the original post remains valid. The proper post is #10.
I Remain in the Light of the Emperor,
Last edited by OSUMacbeth; August 31st, 2006 at 15:05.
1) My understanding from 'The Creation of a Space Marine' is that the entire chapter is created whole cloth, maybe with a bit training from members of the 'parent' chapter. In this case, I'd guess the first commander will likely be some inspiraitonal war leader or exceptional hero amongst whatever people the chapter will draw its recruits from.
2) The Custodes choose who can stand before the golden throne. But they won't do it unless there is a genuinely pressing reason. It's a lot more than just an anecdote to tell the new recruits, it will have been done for a very specific purpose. The custodes themselves are powerful enough that they'll know why you would want to stand before the Emperor and whether it's really important you do so.
3) Chapters generally have a homeworld. However, as you've suggested, fleet based chapters generally pick up recruits wherever they find them on their travels, provided they meet the exceptional criteria required to be a space marine. Generally, space marines only recruit from death worlds, or worlds with a martial or gladiatorial culture. I guess this is the only reliable way to get a 13 year old kid who can gut a grizzly bear without blinking.
4) I can't find an online source, but here are a few: A deathworld is any world on which the environment is almost uninhabitable, like Catachan with its huge toxic jungles or Tallarn with its deserts. Deathworld societies tend to be primitive and tribal. A forgeworld is a world ruled by the Adeptus Mechanicus. They tend to be huge, planet sized factories. Hive worlds are covered by mile high city complexes called 'hives' with polluted wastelands in between, and tend to have huge populations. Agri-worlds are basically farming planets, normally inhabited by lots of mutant slaves who toil endlessly to produce enough food for the infertile hive worlds. There are a few more special categories, like the backwards feudal worlds, worlds with no light whatsoever, etc, but I forget their names.
5) Imperial fists is a good, solid founding chapter and their gene seed gets used a lot, so yeah, it's fine to have a chapter founded from them. Bear in mind that all chapters descended from the fists have no belchers gland, so they can't spit acid, and no sus'an membrane, so they can't hibernate.
6) It depends what you mean by shortly.. The second founding is pretty much covered, for example, so adding a new chapter in there would look wierd. But an early founding chapter isn't a problem at all.
As for the climate after the Heresy, everything was going to hell, the primarchs were still walking around trying to pull everything together, and humanity was in lots of trouble and nearly got pasted.
7) Loyalist space marines don't live 10,000 years so it's not going to be feasable to have the chapter led by its original founder. He might be in a dreadnought somewhere, but even then he'd be pretty senile and not exactly fit to be coordinating an entire chapter's tactics. The question of how long space marines actually live is tricky.. it's at least a few hundred years, and some, particularly blood angels successors, can live a good bit longer than that. But not several thousand years.
The fluff is pretty good..
wow way to answer all his question there was a lot of crap in there I didn't know. Now for our great poster I love the fluff its very well done. You have some experience writing dont you. The one thing Im not keen on is the name Seraphim reminds me too much of SOB and there jump troops. Otherwise I like the way your including Grey knights very original. Can I make the suggestion that you use whitw as the major color with gold extras otherwise your paladins may not stand out as well also make sure when you paint up the gray knight put some chestnut inkwashes on the gold so as to darken it up cause if its to bright you start to lose detail. Also whats your chapter symbol Its got to be pretty damn cool loking at:w00t:
"They shall all taste OBLIVION!,.....which tastes like Red Bull, which is disgusting."
Thank you, The_Giant_Mantis, for your excellent responses. I've been looking over the Imperial Fists history, and I have to say that I will be fortunate indeed if I can come up with a backstory 1/10th as cool as theirs. It's so cool, in fact, that I would almost be willing to scrap my own chapter entirely in favor of playing them, but I simply cannot abide their colors.
Whew, this coming up with a Chapter is a lot of work. Now I have to determine who the current leader of the Seraphim is, how the original founder died, who the chief librarian and chaplain are, who the venerable dreadnoughts are...again, whew! A lot of work for something only I will probably ever care about.
Does the Imperium posess weapons of mass destruction? For example, bombs that could level a city and such? I have a formative idea for how my founder died, but it may require the existance of such weapons. (Cut off from extraction during raid and sabotage of enemy fortress, decides to commend his soul to the Emperor and blow the bloody thing anyway.) But then, I guess the raid could have been with the idea of destroying a massive reactor, which might generate sufficient destructive force to level a large fortress or even a city.
Aside from that, do you have any specific suggestions or opinions regarding the existing rough backstory?
EDIT: @Cypher_Redeemed - Thank you for your kind words regarding my fluff. I do indeed have some experience with writing, as I am an English minor. My professors were all very cross with me, however, for being a Computer Science major. The general concensus was that I was wasting my talents. I haven't written anything for about five years, though.
I'm not sure where the confusion set in, but my colors are indeed mainly white with gold extras. I intend fully to use the gold darkening technique described in "How to paint Space Marines," as it gives a wonderful burnished sheen to the color. I'm wavering on whether to leave the shoulder pads black, but I feel that it may provide a much-needed contrast.
I cannot tell you how angry I was to find that a unit in the SoB was named the Seraphim. I am not entirely unwilling to replace the name, but I would have to replace it with something just as meaningful, or I may just say "nuts" to the SoB and leave it as is. So if anyone has suggestions on that point, feel free.
As to my chapter symbol, I feel somewhat constrained. My skills with modeling are nowhere near advanced enough to form insignia out of Green Stuff, and I wouldn't know how to custom-make transfers or anything like that. I was considering a somewhat modified Dark Angels (?) insignia, with a winged sword. I noticed that ForgeWorld makes some very nice looking conversions for SM Vehicles using this motif. If I modified the Dark Angels heraldry, I could make use of these. Perhaps I could add an enclosing circle or other deviation, and paint the sword red or some other non-Dark-Angel color. I am also open to suggestions on this point as well. One thing I am sure of is that with the creation of the Chapter I want to take things slow, get everything worked out as perfectly as I can. GW has given us such a rich and textured universe to play in that I want to try and do it what justice I can.
EDIT 2: I'm actually happier that my founder cannot conceivably be alive. Every holy order needs its martyrs, its sacred relics, and so forth. The necessity of his death only opens the doors to the many valorous ways he might have died.
EDIT 3: While I'm thinking about it, does White Dwarf Magazine have some sort of monthly feature or bi-annual contest or something for fluff? If they had something like this, it would be quite interesting to enter. Such a thing might provide significant motivation to dust off the old literary tools.
May the Emperor shelter you in his palm,
Last edited by OSUMacbeth; August 31st, 2006 at 18:20.
No, White Dwarf doesn't have a fluff contest. In a past issure where they outlined what they wanted to have submitted the actually discouraged sending them fluff. They prefer to have a very broad view of what is going on in the universe. I can see the reason why but it can be somewhat irritating at times when you just want to know what or why something happened.
<(^^)> <(^^<) (>^^)> ^(^^)^ Dance Kirby! Dance!
I have several ideas for you.
For your symbol, you could simply use folded angel wings. Painted black.
For your HQ's, their names should suggest angels. Seraph, cherup, stuff like that. If that can be incorporated into their names, then it works.
For your vehicles, if your willing, you could try to model the wings with Green Stuff. Or simply grind off the sword from Dark Angels conversion doors.
Yes they do, there is a doom strike missile that basically creates an mini black hole. Also they possess the ultimate weapon the exterminatus, the planet killer. It works by causing all the volcanos to explode are cause the atmosphere to erupt into a firestorm scourging all life from a planet. The imperium also posses various virus bombs that kills every living thing, even bacteria so all plant and life matter turns to sludge.Does the Imperium posess weapons of mass destruction? For example, bombs that could level a city and such? I have a formative idea for how my founder died, but it may require the existance of such weapons. (Cut off from extraction during raid and sabotage of enemy fortress, decides to commend his soul to the Emperor and blow the bloody thing anyway.) But then, I guess the raid could have been with the idea of destroying a massive reactor, which might generate sufficient destructive force to level a large fortress or even a city.Well, he could if he was interred in a venerable dreadnought, Bjorn the Fellhanded of the space wolves fought alongside Leman Russ and saw the Emperor before he was incarcerated in the Golden Throne. Also if he was created before, during, or right after the Heresy he could indeed live forever as the technology wouldn't be lost or debased as it is now. Back then marines were in essence immortal, but war claimed their lives before they could really live long enough to benefit from it.EDIT 2: I'm actually happier that my founder cannot conceivably be alive. Every holy order needs its martyrs, its sacred relics, and so forth. The necessity of his death only opens the doors to the many valorous ways he might have died.
Xbox Gamertag: x Helbrecht x
2) Just to clarify, no one apart from the Order of Companions is allowed in the Throne Room; the Companions are an order within the Custodes that for the Emperor's personal bodyguard. Not sure how many of them there are, but not many. No one else in the entire Imperium is allowed in.
3) Chapters recruit from wherever they're based. The Dark Angels are based on an asteroid fortress, and so they recruit from the worlds they float near, and the Imperial Fists are based on Terra, so they recruit from there. No special permission or anything, it's just that that's where they are.
4) The 3rd edition rulebook has them all listed, along with Imperial Tithe Grades.
5) The Adepts of Mars decide what geneseed to use for a new chapter, and because I'm not sure about whether the geneseed chapter is also the training chapter, that may or may not determine the values of a chapter. Valour, honour and so on are definitely not encoded into the geneseed.
6) Google for 40K timelines, there're plenty out there. And the only founding where all chapters are accounted for is the 2nd founding, so anything from 3rd to 26th is up for the taking, although 21st resulted in many many geneseed failures, and the 13th is entirely unrecorded.
7) As Helbrecht has said, it is possible for marines from the founding of a chapter around that time and longer to survive, as evidenced by Bjorn the Fell-Handed being entombed in a dreadnought and still used. Although he does spend most of his time in stasis.Yup, the virus bombing of Istvaan IV destroyed the whole planet, and exterminatus is always possible. There are no accounts of atomic weapons though, although there are accounts of forbiddden weapons being used both in the schism of the Mechanicum during the Horus Heresy and the Officio Assassinorum's War of Vindication.Originally Posted by OSUMacbeth
Oh, and about the name of the chapter, here is a wiki link to a list of the choirs of angels.
The chapters that come from the IF have the Belchers glan, in a book it talked about a Black Templar spitting on chains to melt them away. So i am pretty sure they do have that because they came from the IF.
Erik Moraki's Great Company 16/4/7
Borgut "SBD" GreatStrider's Ogres 6/1/2
An'Gorath's World Eaters 3/0/2
Sigurd GreatFang's Wulfen Host 7/4/3