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Space marines are meant to be the roughest, toughest and most bad a$$ mothers... (with exception of chaos marines). Their training is meant to be the toughest, constant and potentially life threatening (when live rounds are used). I was just wondering... would marines train martial arts? Kind of like Space Marine Kung Fu? I mean they train ALL methods of war and they often do get into close quarter combat. And they are WS4 over the usual human WS3.
And! Would it be loaded into their heads like in The Matrix?
Neophyte: "I know Kung Fu"
Initiate: "Show me"
Black Templars 3000 points
Tau Empire 1750 points
Tyranids 1500 points
Hordes of Chaos *Coming soon*
Yup. They know kung-fu. They know different types appropriate for different enemies (Eldar style vs Tyranid style). A lot of it involves shooting at point blank and stamping on heads with huge armoured boots from what I can tell.
The download stuff is usually just emotional- loyalty, prejudice etc.
As a note- the White Scars are meant to be excellent martial artists- Jaghatai Khan apparently mastered his own style and taught it to his chapter.
Last edited by The Paint Monkey; November 2nd, 2006 at 08:50. Reason: spelling
No more NG spearmen, thanks! Now I need some pump-wagons!
Well, I know that Space Marines do train a lot in both armed and armoured close-combat fighting as well as without either weapons or armour â€“ in the book â€˜Grey Knightsâ€™ their style is described as a kind of wrestling, as you could imagine with them usually wearing several hundred kilos of armour and gear, whereas the book â€˜Dawn of War: Tempestâ€™ has them being a lot more mobile, doing back-flips and leaps high into the air with the assistance of the servo-motors of their Power Armour. They also tend to kick their enemies a lot, probably because they use their fists for holding weapons.
However, a thing you must keep in mind is that martial arts are usually very stylised and with many rules and regulations; they evolved as much as a physical expression of certain philosophies on life as they did as a form of self-defence, and most of them are highly ineffective in a serious combat situation where the goal is to kill your enemy as quickly and quietly as possible â€“ Matrix-style close-combat fighting would never work in real life because the enemy would have plenty of time to call out for assistance and receive it too.
Martial arts work in a dojo and also on the street against petty criminals who would steal your purse because the purpose of most martial arts is to hurt and incapacitate without outright killing your opponent; real-life soldiers are taught to kill with a single blow, not to engage in prolonged fisticuffs, and in the case that they are taught a little in the way of martial arts itâ€™s for increasing their self-confidence only and not for actually using against a real opponent.
I imagine the same to be true for Space Marines; they have the assistance of their Power Armours to lend them the strength to smash through concrete, and it seems this is more or less their basic strategy too â€“ rather than parading and ducking, they wade right in and hit the enemy once, but hard enough to smash through all defences and kill him instantly. A martial arts master would have no chance against a Space Marine; his punches and even weapons would likely not even penetrate the Marineâ€™s armour, let alone do lethal damage, and while he could probably evade the Marine for a while with his acrobatics, the Marine only needs to hit him once for the game to be over.
As for combat methods and martial arts being downloaded into the Marineâ€™s head during his rites of initiation, I find it unlikely. That is, the knowledge of effective combat moves available to a Marine in Powered Armour might be hypno-taught to the young recruit, but thereâ€™s a long way from knowing how to perform a move and actually doing it. It takes time and focus for a Marine to recall what heâ€™s been hypno-taught, and thatâ€™s exactly what you donâ€™t have in a close-combat situation. For martial arts to be effective, they must reside not in the conscious brain but in the spinal reflex centres so that the martial artist doesnâ€™t even need to think about how to perform his move, and the only way to get that kind of instant reflexes that I can imagine is to practise, practise, practise. Which is exactly what the Marines do.
However, while unlikely, it would be rather cool to see a re-enactment of Neo vs. Morpheus with Power Armours, thatâ€™s for sure. ^_^
"Girls are nice and cuddly on the outside, and freaky on the inside." ~ Lost Nemesis.
Agreed with Grephaun.. as usual her fluff wisdom is infallible.
Most martial arts aren't designed for combat use. Often they were designed to train warriors in the skills they'll need for combat, but not to actually provide an effective means of killing someone. Those which are designed for fighting usually focus on crippling an opponent in a few seconds maximum, none of this drawn out dramatic stuff.. It's just eye gouges, groin kicks and knuckles into the windpipe.
Marines are strong.. impossibly strong. I can't remember the source, but they can snap human bones like twigs and tear arms out of sockets. A single punch to the head from a marine will likely be fatal. When they do martial arts, I'd imagine it will be killing blows and power forms all the way, none of this internal mastery and drawn out combos.Agreed.. We know that the knowledge based stuff is all hypno taught. Things like squad level tactics, maintenance techniques and the like. But marines already have hours of combat training a day.. If you were already a naturally skilled combatant, and trained in any combat discipline for a few hours a day for 100 years, I'd be willing to bet you'd be pretty good.Originally Posted by Grephaun
I think the whole martial arts thing needs to bear in mind powered armour and bolters.
Frankly I dont care how many roof files you can break, you punch an armourd space marine in the face and the net effect is a broken hand.
Second however quick you, a bolt round is quicker
So whilst I agree that there may be martial arts trainging, I dissagree a little with the posts above, the point of such training would be to reinforce discipline as much as anything else
Everything you have been told is a lie!
Honestly, SM 'martial arts' is probably comparable to the kind of hand to hand training that modern armed forces recieve. It probably mixes all of the most applicable moves from several styles and does away with archaic rules. Remember two points of actual combat situations:
1. You're opponent is unreliable. Moves that work only when you are attacked a certain way are useless (ie: uh, can you grab my right shoulder with your left hand please?)
2. You're out to kill: If your opponent hits the floor, you're going to do one of two things. Either A- SHOOT the MOTHER:shifty: ! or B- STAMP ON HIS 'EAD:yes: ! none of that 'letting him get up and take a stance'. He'd do the same to you...
So when you read the books by Abnett (because they're pretty realistic), the way marines fight in tight situations seems pretty right. (And it's alot cooler to crush skulls with a barehand and rip off gasmasks etc. than use your 'karate-chopping-action')
You can NOT do flips and stuff in armour like that! And i dont care what books you read. Imagine the marines fighting as the Predators do, in AvP the movie. Grabbing their enemies, crusing with fists, smashing against the walls, mostly showing off their physical strengh. Crusading Knights Templar did not excersise martial arts, they fought with huge swords. Elaborate blocking or evasion is of no use. Think military-style karate. Kick, stomp, smash.
I'll go out on a wild goose chase here if you don't mind.
I could see a marine doing a back-flip. I mean I'm sure they can do one without armour and their power armour enhances their strength, so the weight of the armour is probably offset by the artificial muscular system in it.
The Ten Dimensions
"I read about something like this in a book." "Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't nothing?" "...Oh yeah."-Peter and Brian Griffin
What makes Space Marines special compared to all other armoured warriors in the 40k universe is their unique combination of servo-motored artificial musculature and mechano-neural interfaces linked to their Black Carapace implant; Power Armour is frequently described as feeling like a second skin to the Space Marines in spite of its size and bulk because they can sense it and control it just like an additional body part. The servo-motors make the armour feel practically weightless and enable a Marine to lift several times his own weight, and the sensors and regulators give the armour perfect balance and poise.
However, as stated above in my previous post I do believe that Marines usually prefer to rely on their brute strength when in close combat, because it really is a major advantage and also saves a lot of time; as I said, martial arts are of little use in an actual combat situation â€“ however, this does not mean that Marines are incapable of moving with speed and grace when they wish to.
"Girls are nice and cuddly on the outside, and freaky on the inside." ~ Lost Nemesis.