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How many of you are in favor of GW finally getting off their duff and actually going through with one of the huge galaxy changing events that they have been alluding to for the last 20 years or so?
I'm referring to things like the Void Dragon awakening on Mars, and causing the Adeptus Mechanicus to split into a civil war over it. Or Roboute Guilliman actually healing and waking up. Maybe Abbadon finally succeeds in one of his crusades and devestates the Cadian Gate and surrounding space.
Anyways, the point is to have GW finally stop tip toeing around this issue. With the EoT campaign, Chaos should have done much more then they did, but GW had to maintain the status qou, so they downplayed the situation. Then they go and create a huge campaign over a completely insignficant planet.
Anyone else think this is a good idea? What situations would you like to see unfold?
Nights Justice Space Marines
Eldar Eth Kariel Craftworld
Spear of Kurnous - High Elf Expeditionary Army
The problem with galaxy-changing events is just that: they drastically change the galaxy.
For example, imagine the effects of a civil war between the adeptus mechanicus and the imperium:
1. Imperial Guard regiments are no longer supplied with Tanks - this means that after your big galaxy changing event, you'd have to tell imperial guard players (after a short period) that they were not allowed to field vehicles.
2. Mars, being extremely close to Terra, would be obliterated. Ok then, all those shiny bolters and predators that were being built using the STC stored on Mars are now seemingly impossible to build. - now tell Space Marine players that their marines cannot be armed, and they too cannot field vehicles.
3. And who is gonna maintain the Golden Throne; if, and I repeat IF the Dragon is on Mars and he does indeed wake up he probably has the power (being the God of machines) to snap his fingers and turn it off...
Basically the reason GW never goes ahead with its big glaxy-changing events is because firstly to complete them would cause far too much disruption to the current rules of the game (let alone fluff), and secondly because they do create a lovely tense, on-the-brink-of-the-apocalypse- kind of atmosphere.
The four shall take their place amongst the stars,
Their legions ascendant, unstoppable as the night
A deadly shroud shall fall across the spirit
And the galaxy shall mourn.
I understand ha tyou are saying Count Benignito, but they could do something that can change 40k. Look at Battletech. They where able to add changeing events wit hout bringing it all to a close.
Why use science and education when ignorance and superstition will work just as well.
The thing is, as Beningnito said, there's no point going through with a galaxy changing event if you don't actually change anything.
The AM civil war would break the entire image and theme of the Adeptus Mechanicus. One of the most important elements of the 40k fluff would just be gone.
Roboute Gulliman could be done.. but it cheapens the whole mystery appeal of the primachs as ancient demigods who once walked the galaxy (ooh.. spooky.) Once roboute gulliman is just some toothless dude who got out of a coma and is sitting around scratching his head trying to work out what things like Tyranids are it removes that mystery.
As for Abaddon crushing Cadia.. one problem there.. have you noticed which army most guard players play with?
They went as far as they could with Cadia.. the planet was in ruins, but they could actually go through with it because it would wipe out the best loved and most successful IG model range..
I'm of the opinion that these events are better as tension fodder and conspiracy theory. Kind of.. woooo, the galaxy is on the brink of destruction! Without ever getting to the destruction.
Battletech had far less fluff, and far less personality than 40k does. They could get away with tweaking or retconning or shifting big things.. Do that in 40k, and someone's going to squeal that their favourite model range got wiped out.. or the character of an organization they like has completely altered.
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; December 6th, 2006 at 00:41.
I'm fairly new to 40k (been playing about a year now), and when I found out about these uber-huge campaigns, I thought it was just about the coolest idea I'd heard -- having players' battles permanently change the gaming universe based on the outcomes of gamers' battles worldwide is just... wow!
That said, the real challenge is finding just the right level of 'drastic' events. I believe (from references in 40k literature and from other LO members) that there used to be a race of squats (space dwarves, apparently), but their homeworld got eaten by a tyranid hive fleet or some such, and now they're not an option anymore. I think that's a good example of the kinds of 'drastic' changes that people don't want to see. Imagine being told that your chosen race/army no longer exists!
Conversely, besides the introduction or annihilation of entire factions, it's hard to think of other changes to the game that could be changed based on campaigns. Perhaps new units or abilities might be given to the victorious side, but then the game becomes that much more difficult to balance. Anything given to the victor couldn't be too worthwhile, in which case why even bother holding the campaigns (which I must imagine is a logistical nightmare for the good folks at GW).
To sum up, I really like the idea of a dynamic universe, but changing game mechanics in addition to fluff... aye, there's the rub!
If anyone's got examples of things that could be changed game mechanics wise without throwing the game out of whack, I'd love to hear it =D
Anyways, there's my 3 or 4Â¢
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If GW was to do a drastic event (which I think would be cool if they worked toward it slowly...see my next point) I think it COULD work if given the following:
1). They slowly introduced new fluff to accomodate for the fluff/etc. being written out/destroyed/etc.
- For example, to continue using the AM Civil War idea, if in the next few years they slowly introduced into the game a planet with capabilities that were near those of Mars (well not at first, but over years could grow to rival it) and have this planet manned by loyal AM not under the Void Dragon's (or whatever it is) influence...then the whole issue of "no more vehicles/weapons/etc" would be solved. It could also add in in interesting element of Loyal vs. Traitor AM legions.
Things like that GW could do...slowly introduce new fluff which in the future can replace the old fluff. If they did that then I can see drastic changes working. I mean isn't there a rumor of a new smaller Dark Eldar city that will be coming out in their new 'Dex?
Downside of this type of method (slowly introducing new fluff which can be used to allow for drastic events) is it would take real YEARS for it to come into effect. It would also take many global campaigns to. So, for example if GW were to do the whole rebelling AM/Void Dragon thing, they'd have to introduce a new planet in the fluff in the next year or so, and in the next like 10 years have it mentioned more and more in fluff and have it grow in importance. And even have fluff allude to the fact that there is a growing theological rift between Mars and this new planet so that yes like 12 years from now (in real world time), the Void Dragon can awake, Mars can revolt, etc. etc. That way some core fluff is changed, but the general mechanics won't be.
If you win games against Nids with flamers (aside from the Inferno Cannon on a Hellhound), you're playing against opponents with stupidity of impressive magnitude.
There are many, many Forge Worlds. Mars is not the only one. But that would add to much of the situation. With the Adeptus Mechanicus at war with itself, and the Imperium at war with it, they would no longer be able to keep the solid stranglehold of ignorance that they have kept on technology for the last ten millenia. Humanity is inherently intelligent. They at one time built the technology that could unarguably conquer the galaxy. Given the chance, they could do so again, as long as they wheren't told by some religious sect that the technology was a mystical thing that they had no right to tinker with.
Cadia should have been lost in the EOT campaign. But as I said, GW didn't want to change the Status Quo. As for the "most popular armies", GW maintains that most of the IG regiments fit themselves like that, not just the Cadians. When I get my Gaurd army going, I'll be using Cadian models, but they'll be coming from a planet on the other side of the galaxy.
As far as I have gathered, the Primarchs are supposed to be Immortal, in the sense that they cannot die a natural death. Sure they can be killed, but only after sustaining massive amounts of damage. If Guilliman where to awaken, he would not be some fogey puttering about, unsure about what happened to the galaxy. I bet he'd be uber-pissed about the way that the Imperium turned out and would move to fix it. I'd love to see the Inquisition get knocked around.:yes:
At any rate, many things could be done. Many things that move the fluff of the game on, but keeps the game as is. No armies need to be wiped out. In galaxy spanning empires, the loss of one or two planets, no matter how big players they are, in the end aren't that big of a loss. But the story that could come from it could truly be awesome.
Nights Justice Space Marines
Eldar Eth Kariel Craftworld
Spear of Kurnous - High Elf Expeditionary Army
i think GW has created a fluff-monster the likes of which we have never seen
it might just rise up and kick the Emperor in the nads
anyways, i really think GW dug themselves into a hole in their earlier years
if they started the right way (fluff-wise) all those years ago, they could mold the fluff into w/e they felt like doing it
now, they have so much established stuff, so much fluff, so many armies and so many rules that any small or moderately shifting change basically screws over 3 different factions at once
Shoot first....shoot again....annnnnnnnnd shoot some more, cause I think I saw his leg twitch.
Also, very mad props to aerion_the_faitful for making so many damn good drawings, esp. ones of Space Marines (and the one that I use for my Avatar)!
Maybe an Admech civil would could be a good thing for the immperium. The short term would be chaos, but all that time it takes to bless every damn part of a machine and the hatred towards new ideas that has brought the immperium to a era of technological regression could be alleviated with the death of the Admechs.
As for galaxy changing events I think the best thing could be having a missing primarch return. I could imagine a confederation of technologicaly advanced worlds never recovered in the great crusade lead by one of the missing primarchs to take back the now currupt immperium. Hell it could even be a new faction and model range for GW using the same induction rules the DH have counting for the imperial guard and space marines who have joined one of the emperor's sons. But thats getting ahead of myself.
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Gulliman: "Man.. this sucks.. I want to change everything.. Oh wait.. I already decided space marines are completely independent and have no power to command anyone else, silly me. Oh my.. are those cyclonic torpedoes?"
This is the thing.. We have abseloutely no idea how Guilliman felt about anything, or what he wanted except the very small ammount we know about the Codex Astrates. His main concern seems to have been just 'holding some kind of Imperium together and letting the high lords and the nascant inquisition sort out the political crap.' Waking him up and having him stomp around being all big and important ruins his status as this mysterious founder of the space marine code of conduct.Maybe, but it wouldn't be anything like the same Imperium it is in the current fluff..Maybe an Admech civil would could be a good thing for the immperium.
This is the thing.. change anything too much, and you strip out a lot of the good material. The Admech may be a 'bad thing' for the Imperium, but it's what differentiates the 40k universe from 90% of the other science fiction out there. Take it out.. and you've got star trek with bolters.
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; December 6th, 2006 at 07:01.