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  1. #1
    Dawn Under Heaven Triumph Of Man's Avatar
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    Questions on Chaos

    1. I know a lot of Chaos followers are more or less solely interested in the aspects of Killmaimburn! But I wondered if the saner figureheads of Chaos, such as Abaddon, could harbour desires to reforge a new Imperium under Chaos rule. Obviously they want to eredicate their loyalist bretheren, but is it inconcievable/highly unlikely that some could be working towards what they see is the betterment for mankind?

    2. That fluff section in chaos codex about the great prophet and the men of the Tabor plains, has GW done anything with that? Specifically have they ironed out any fluff for the Prophet and the man (well, I assume it's a man) who's narrating?

    Last edited by Triumph Of Man; December 7th, 2006 at 11:58.


    Karmoon
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    Member TehDarkPredator's Avatar
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    Before Chaos would form one an empire they'd fight among eachother until one side/Chaos god remains standing. Then, they would make an empire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triumph Of Man View Post
    1. I know a lot of Chaos followers are more or less solely interested in the aspects of Killmaimburn! But I wondered if the saner figureheads of Chaos, such as Abaddon, could harbour desires to reforge a new Imperium under Chaos rule. Obviously they want to eredicate their loyalist bretheren, but is it inconcievable/highly unlikely that some could be working towards what they see is the betterment for mankind?
    Keeping in mind the recent debate in Enhanced on the usefulness of Black Library, I’d like to take a moment to be cheeky and say that this is an excellent example of when it pays off to read their (better) publications.

    My favourite illustration of the various viewpoints of Chaos worshippers is found in the novel ‘Storm of Iron’ featuring the Iron Warriors, in which one of their Captains, Forrix, suffers a moment of introspection when pondering the differences in belief between himself and his two fellow Captains. Since the first chapter of the novel has been made publicly available on Black Library’s homepage, I’ve copy-pasted the relevant paragraphs here:

    Quote Originally Posted by ’Storm of Iron’ by Graham McNeill

    Gunfire sounded sporadically, the last pockets of resistance being mopped up even now. The half-breed’s warriors were clearing out the Imperial soldiers from the ruins of their barrack complex, and despite Forrix’s contempt for Honsou’s flawed heritage, he had to admit that his rival was a competent commander. Furthermore, he still believed in the dream of Horus, and the unification of Humanity under the terrible Powers of Chaos.

    Forrix watched Kroeger pace like a caged animal, straining to be let loose within the confines of the tower. Kroeger’s impatience had long ceased to anger Forrix; now it simply irritated him. The man was a proficient killer, and he had fought the Warsmith’s enemies for ten thousand years, admittedly, but he lacked the perspective that such an eternity of war and despair should bring. Unlike Honsou, Kroeger had long since cast off any notions of the good of humanity. He fought for greed, for slaughter and the chance to exact a measure of revenge upon those who had bested them so long ago.

    As for himself? Forrix no longer knew what he fought for, only that there was nothing else he could do. He had been damned the instant he had spat upon his oaths of loyalty to the Emperor. Now he could walk no other path.
    The full first chapter can be found in PDF here.

    So, as indicated in this little piece of text, some Chaos followers actually do believe that they’re fighting to save humanity from the corruption of the weakling Imperium, liberating them to enjoy the freedom and power of Chaos. Others just fight for the killmainburn!, and others again have simply given up and fight because that’s all they truly have left.

    As for your second question, I can’t recall off the top of my head that there should be any special fluff for the prophet from the Chaos Codex; however, I don’t have access to my fluff collection at the moment, so I’ll have to get back to you on that if no one else can answer the question.

    ~Greph.
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    Dawn Under Heaven Triumph Of Man's Avatar
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    Keeping in mind the recent debate in Enhanced on the usefulness of Black Library, I’d like to take a moment to be cheeky and say that this is an excellent example of when it pays off to read their (better) publications.
    Heh, ok, I'll read some. But if they even so much mention the curves of a Callidus assasin (or what happens when Imperial Fists "drop the soap" in the monastery-barrack showers :tongue: ), you can guess where the book is heading.

    So, as indicated in this little piece of text, some Chaos followers actually do believe that they’re fighting to save humanity from the corruption of the weakling Imperium, liberating them to enjoy the freedom and power of Chaos. Others just fight for the killmainburn!, and others again have simply given up and fight because that’s all they truly have left.
    Sounds good to me, thanks. :yes:


    Karmoon
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    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    I agree with Greph, 'Kill Maim Burn' was actually said by Kharn the Betrayer, and while it pretty much sums up his philosophy on life, the vast majority of chaos followers, even khorne berserkers, seem to be considerably more lucid (read.. less blessed) than him.

    Horus and his followers always endorsed the idea of building a human Empire based around chaos worship. It would probably be much like the eye of terror is today.. i.e. chaos space marines and daemon princes ruling worlds filled with mutants and serfs. It wouldn't be a nice place, but then, neither is the Imperium really.

    It's my feeling that the 'betterment of mankind' is incompatable, however, with the way chaos works. Chaos doesn't care about the squealing pathetic masses, it cares about the few with the strength of will and body to serve it adequately. The nature of chaos is that you'll have billions of squealing pathetic freaks who just serve/die/suffer while maybe one or two exceptional individuals rise to the top and are blessed and gifted by their gods. It's why I've always felt it slightly silly to have a chaos space marine army list.. Chaos space marines aren't just soldiers.. they're the champions and aristocracy of chaos.

    The tabor fluff doesn't seem to have been expanded on much.. The prophet had black armour, and therefore, I'd guess he was a black legion chaos space marine, but other than that we just don't know.
    Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; December 7th, 2006 at 22:06.

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    Senior Member Djones9916's Avatar
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    I think Grephaun summed it up pretty well. If I remember correctly, Honsou later on in the book had a period of introspection that was much like that. Was thinking to himself about uniting humanity under one banner as being the only way to keep it from falling to things like the Tyranids.

    Maybe that was in Dead Sky, Black Sun as well... been a while since I read either book.

    I believe you'll find the "Undivided" legions as the ones who retain more of their humanity. The ones who did embrace the Chaos Gods just don't give a hoot anymore. Their all about the "Chaos".

    Those like the Iron Warriors are there, simply because they have no where else to go.
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    Son of LO ze_poodle's Avatar
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    The Tabor excerpt is just there to provide an example of how primitive, non-Imperial human offshoots view the Chaos Gods (i.e, not necessarily as enemies) and how the Chaos Legions pick recruits - by staging massive, bloody wars with a near-total casualty rate and picking up the survivors. The black power armour of the Prophet could indicate Black Legion; alternatively, his name and his attitude of reverence towards the Chaos Gods would make him a Word Bearer. If you want your own Chaos army fluff related to the Tabor, use that as a springboard and then exercise your creative insight.
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  9. #8
    Zed
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    A lot of chaos followers in fluff and stories seem quite calmer, but this may be because they are easier to give a deep full character. If chaos did rule it would probably be similiar to the eye of terror at the moment. There would be lots of chaos goings on such as sacraficing, battling for power, warp storms everywhere and daemons popping up everywhere (like Starbucks).

    It would be very similiar to survival of the strongest. E.g. the minion obeys the chaos space marine, who obeys the chaos champion, who obeys the chaos lord, who obeys the daemon prince, who obeys the daemon, who obeys the chaos god. And they they all stab each other in the back to go up a level.

    Even if a lot of chaos space marines think that they can make the Imperium a better place they will probably end up corrupted anyway. Just look at Horus. A lot of humans, space marines, and chapters have been declared chaos worshippers as propaganda for simply disagreeing witht he way the Imperium is run.

    As for Tabor fluff, it just shows that chaos space marines can recruit new guys. There was a thread on LO quite a while ago asking why the immense legions (this is before chapters) of chaos space marines didn't all kill themselves in the chaos of the Eye of Terror. This point had been argued about a lot and the Tabor and Fabius Bile fluff was used to resolve it.
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    And the almighty Dice God said to his followers "Thou shalt not speak ye words "anything but a one" For thou whoever'st speaketh this blasphemy will be cursed with thy rolls being of one".
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    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis View Post
    It's my feeling that the 'betterment of mankind' is incompatable, however, with the way chaos works. Chaos doesn't care about the squealing pathetic masses, it cares about the few with the strength of will and body to serve it adequately. The nature of chaos is that you'll have billions of squealing pathetic freaks who just serve/die/suffer while maybe one or two exceptional individuals rise to the top and are blessed and gifted by their gods.
    one or two exceptional individuals = Chapter Masters

    God = Emperor

    How is the imperium much different?

    I think many Chaos Space Marines might still think they're battling for honourable ends, but Chaos may have perverted their perception of good and bad. The difference between neurosis and psychosis.. or something. :wacko:
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    Dawn Under Heaven Triumph Of Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ze_poodle View Post
    The Tabor excerpt is just there to provide an example of how primitive, non-Imperial human offshoots view the Chaos Gods (i.e, not necessarily as enemies) and how the Chaos Legions pick recruits - by staging massive, bloody wars with a near-total casualty rate and picking up the survivors. The black power armour of the Prophet could indicate Black Legion; alternatively, his name and his attitude of reverence towards the Chaos Gods would make him a Word Bearer. If you want your own Chaos army fluff related to the Tabor, use that as a springboard and then exercise your creative insight.
    He had a name? What was it?


    Karmoon
    ... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..

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