Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Simple question, really.
Say a Chaos army, such as the Red Corsairs, stumbled upon a small patrol of Space Marines... or even a small garrison, etc., and took them as captives or whatever.
After killing the most devout and faithful, how would they go about bending the other, slightly weaker Marines to the "dark side?"
How much torture can a Marine take? How would an Undivided Marine force his "faith" onto a loyalist Marine with poor resolve?
Things like that. I'm thinking about starting a Chaos army, and the Red Corsairs have caught my eye, so I want to know how they get new recruits besides the obvious "oh, we hate the Emperor now, let's go join those people." I don't think that'd happen enough for them to keep a sizeable force.
good question, I always just expected that CSM exposed their emperor loving brothers unarmed and unarmored to the warp untell they fell to it without much other torture, but if the army is just renegade and not chaos empowered it gets pretty tough doesn't it.
would you really want to torture a brother marine into submission and take the chance he doesn't turn his gun on you first chance he gets? The only thing I can really think of is either some sort of mind altering drug that kept on enough becomes your own reality... or planethopping with a ship full of captured loyalists and hoping to show them the truth the way you see it enough that they do question their own beliefs
How much torture can a Marine take? The simple answer is Allot. It takes something like flaying the flesh off every inch of their body in the most excruciating manner possible to even dent their faith.
However Remember that Chaos is more subtle than it is portrayed on the table top. A psyker could literally twist their mind itself, using warp power and false logic to portray the Chaos Gods as superior to the Immortal Emperor. Other methods of manipulation could be used, such as casing visions of betrayal or evoking an environment of hopelessness.
To sum up I think that the primary method of torture would be mental not physical. Physical means such as forced sleep deprivation, electroshock, or sensory deprivation could be applied but all of these methods would take a supporting role to the main technique of raw psychic thought control.
(><) This is Dead Bunny.
MyArmys: Points: W/L/D
Imperial Guard: 2250: In Progress.
Necron: 500: 2/1/1
Join the Imperium today!
I think it would e quite hard for a renegade Marine to turn a loyal. Remember that the loyal marines believe that everyhting done in the name of the Emperor is right and going against Him is so wrong that it stings (in various ammounts).
The sorcerer (he wouldn't be a Librarian anymore since he's using un-sanctionied witchcraft, according to the marines at least) would need the Marine to think that the Emperor have abandoned him and that the Chaos Gods are the only way to vengence. The sorcered would need to slowly break the marines faith (or loyalty, depending if the particular chapter sees the Emperor as God or warrior-leader), which is deeply rooted in them, until the marine is basicly a whimpering shell of doubt and madness. That's the time to start implenting the 'truths' of Chaos. :shifty:
Chaos would also need to be implented into a marine slowly, to much at the same time might make the marine completely insane or would shock him to death or give him back his original beliefs.
This could be made into a real cool short-story telling the tale about this particular marine captured by renegades. Maybe tell it by writing down the captured marine's log-entries and portrait him slowly spiralling down into madness thanks to the sorcerers visions and 'lies'.
Inquisitors (and other psykers) have a lot of fun showing people glimpses of the infinite warp. It sends most people insane and would mentally scar even a marine. Damn effective torture but I don't know how effective it would be at turning someone.
Check out my Codex: Farmyard Animals here!
If anyone wants any kind of help writing fluff for any kind of GW army just ask.
Yeah, that's often better if you want to turn them into gibbering wrecks that soaks themselves (which can be quite funny if you are of the malicious kind).
Just a thought... what legion is the guy going to be from, if at all? The Word Bearers work on actively converting, and to paraphrase the codex, know many arguments against Imperial rule. If you wanted a reasoned conversion accompanied by force, that could be the way to go.
A point about the Red Corsairs as well - they recruit from all kinds of disparate elements within the Maelstrom - the main thing to remember is that it is the main Warp/Real Space overlay within the Imperium and a very good place to hide if you need to run from something. While the Corsairs might not have access to the kind of technology that Fabius Bile supplies to the Traitor Legions to help them create new Marines, many Loyalists that do turn coat eventually end up in the Maelstrom. Because they're a pirate band composed of Marines from numerous chapters, they end up being the most welcoming out of all the Traitor Marines living there and so inevitably, a lot of Traitor Marines end up joining them. There is also a large contingent of Word Bearers but I imagine that they are very exclusive and overbearing in their doctrine and don't readily accept newcomers due to geneseed differences.
Marines can withstand a surprising amount of torture but you also need to remember that the 40K universe is filled with the finest torturers in existence, between Dark Eldar Haemonculi, the Excruciators and Explicators of the Inquisition, and the Interrogator Chaplains of the Dark Angels, getting captured as a prisoner of war is a pretty terrifying prospect. I expect that behind the scenes, even the Tau use mental conditioning and brainwashing while presenting a respectable and idealistic face to the galaxy.
Well, my plan for torture and forced conversion is quite simple:
Step 1: Capture the Marine. This is the primary focus of my strike force.
Step 2: Torture the Marine as much as possible without killing them. As they are quite adept at withstanding torture, this obviously takes some time, but the purpose of it is to decrease their mental resistance... taking pain is several parts mental, so if you can only think of the pain, it's much easier to toy with the other parts of the mind.
Step 3: Fallen librarian comes and does his Chaos-gifted magicks on the hapless Marine. The Marine was weak to begin with (they wouldn't take an enemy librarian, after all - too powerful, psychically) and the torture just serves to weaken their resolve more. The fallen librarian then goes on to twist their minds under the guidance of the Chaos Gods, turning them away from the loyalist faith.
I think this would work rather well, and because it takes a fair amount of time, isn't done super often. I think it's a fluffy way to include more renegade Marines in a force, so I think I'll roll with it.
Are there any huge problems that can't be explained away, as far as this tactic goes? I can't see how, but I'll ask anyways.