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  1. #1
    Senior Member Inquisitor Leet's Avatar
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    Imperial Crusades

    Hello lords and ladies of the Fluff forums. I come to you seeking advice on a topic of fluffy importance. I am designing a pencil and paper RPG situated around a fictious crusade. It is, until I think of another name, the Second Damocles Gulf Crusade. An effort by Imperial forces to retake planets from the Tau and crush the blue upstarts mini empire before it becomes an actual threat. Now my question for you all is this, what is normal size of an Imperial Crusade?
    From what I planned out so far there is:
    250,000 Guardsmen(bunch of tanks to, not sure on correct numbers)
    4 Titans
    300 marines
    2 inquisitors(ordo xenos)
    1 deathwatch kill team
    The entire crusade is headed by Warmaster Alexander Glos, a Imperial general from Cadia.
    So, are my numbers right at all? Also one thing that had helped me in the past when designing things of this nature is being asked questions. So to those curious and interested in helping a game master, ask away!

    In an Imperium of a million worlds, what is the death of one world in the cause of purity?
    ~Inquisition credo

    He who allows the alien to live,
    shares its crime of existence.
    ~Inquisitor Apollyon

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  3. #2
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    450 (x8)

    Too small, I think.. Crusades are big, galaxy shaping events.

    Guardsmen should be into the millions, if not hundreds of millions. 250,000 is fewer soldiers than fought in world war 2.. An empire which rules millions of planets and mobilizes entire worlds for combat has got to be able to muster more than that if it aims to cut a glorious swathe across the stars.

    Titans.. Well, they'd probably be deployed in their legio formations with supporting skitarii auxillia. I'm not sure how many titans in a legion, but I'd say more than 4. Think of the Titan battles on Armaggeddon, then consider that a crusade aims to take several planets.

    300 marines is very small, considering crusades generally involve multiple chapters. Assuming about 10 chapters get involved and all send between 1-3 companies, you have 1000-3000 marines already.

    Inquisitors and deathwatch sound about right.

    Also.. A crusade may well have an officio assassinorum agent or two opperating nearby (again, they wouldn't be part of the crusade, but their objectives might mesh with those of the crusade leaders.) Perhaps even an Ordo Sicarius inquisitor as a liason.

    That, and don't forget the lesser known elements which may well come out of the wordwork for a crusade.. Ecclesiarchical forces, including the Adepta Sororitas. Imperial Navy aircraft squadrons. Penal legions. Inquisitorial troops. Those wierd ones which are only mentioned in the Armageddon Codex like the Divisio Telepathica (I think.. don't have the Armageddon Codex).. A crusade can be big, and varied.

    The trouble with making a fictional damocles gulf is that it has a huge effect on the 40k metaplot.. While that's not such a bad thing in a roleplaying game, if you want to have Exalted style 'shaping the universe' kind of narratives, it's pretty world bending in its implications. If the Imperium did wage another crusade against the Tau, the greyskins may well all die, and, at least, it would have a huge effect on the political geography and balance of power in the region. The tau empire isn't big.. in fact, it's tiny. Every world counts.. wheras with something like Orks or Hrud or Imperial seccesionists, you've got much more scope to be creative without crippling or destroying a popular 40k race.

    How about having a crusade to cleanse a generally lawless region of space, with several planets dominated by different alien species or non-Imperial human cultures. That way, you can also get a lot more variety and flexibility into your game.
    Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; January 25th, 2007 at 02:48.

  4. #3
    One Awesome Dude hotspike18's Avatar
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    Don't Space Marine commanders assume control over an Imperial Guard leader just defacto? That is of course assuming the Inquisitors don't interfere.
    "If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."

  5. #4
    Senior Member lastspartacus's Avatar
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    in theory no, the marines and the guard are completely different bodies,
    but in practice they could, if a marine tells you to go somewhere you better darn well do it,
    if they have inquisitorial authority, like deathwatch, they could requisition.
    but yes, a crusade will involve far larger numbers, think really big.
    i doubt it would be a warmaster from cadia as cadia is on the opposite side of the galaxy is it not?
    a crusade would involve some of nearly every major imperium body, but what is ordo sicarius?

  6. #5
    Senior Member The_Ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor Leet View Post
    Hello lords and ladies of the Fluff forums. I come to you seeking advice on a topic of fluffy importance. I am designing a pencil and paper RPG situated around a fictious crusade. It is, until I think of another name, the Second Damocles Gulf Crusade. An effort by Imperial forces to retake planets from the Tau and crush the blue upstarts mini empire before it becomes an actual threat. Now my question for you all is this, what is normal size of an Imperial Crusade?
    From what I planned out so far there is:
    250,000 Guardsmen(bunch of tanks to, not sure on correct numbers)
    4 Titans
    300 marines
    2 inquisitors(ordo xenos)
    1 deathwatch kill team
    The entire crusade is headed by Warmaster Alexander Glos, a Imperial general from Cadia.
    So, are my numbers right at all? Also one thing that had helped me in the past when designing things of this nature is being asked questions. So to those curious and interested in helping a game master, ask away!


    Ok three things.

    one, I can hardly belive I am saying this but I second everything mantis said. Your force should be about 10 or 100 times that many people in all respects. What you have there looks like the invasion force for one SMALL planet.

    two: To give you a realy basic idea of how many guardsmen will be invloved try this

    10 men to a squad
    5 squads to a platoon
    5 platoons for one company
    (Maximum size unit played on one force org chart in 40K)

    2-5 companys makes up a battalion
    2-5 battalions is a regiment
    5-10 regiments is one brigade
    5-10 brigades are inclueded in every standard Imperial Guard Legion.

    So for all the kids without calculators thats 25000 - 625000 regular ground pounding troops for ONE legion, which doesen't count officers, specialists, suport troops, or noncoms. And every crusade has several dozen Legions. Were talking millions, if not Bilions of troops.


    three: What is your objective in running this campaign, what kind of story are you trying to tell here?
    Quote Originally Posted by RecklessFable View Post
    Thought for the Day: Armylists are a three-edged sword. The list your backstory wants. The list that is optimal. The list of models you actually own.
    And HOW.

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  7. #6
    Drills baby. Da Mighty Camel's Avatar
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    525 (x8)

    I recommend the Sabbat Worlds Crusade source book. A great read and gives a glimpse of the Imperiums most powerful tool, a Crusade.

    The invasion force tasked with reataking the Sabbat Worlds (area of space aproximatly consisting of a single Imperial Sector - ie. several thousand inhabitaded worlds and many hundreds of stars) was, if my memory serves, billions strong.

    1 billion Imperial Guardsmens (that's a lot of regiments)
    Several dozen Companies from different Chapters
    Several titan legions (including one containing an Emperor Titan) with Skitarii support units
    A navy consisting of a grand total of 1000 ships (including transports and the like) with several hundreds of Navy fighter wings

    The Sabbat Worlds Crusade was one of the largest in a long time. By comparison, the Damocles Gulf Crusade was a relativly small one. The campaign to retake Taros consisted of 30,000-ish Guardsmens and some support - and that was a small army by Imperial standards!

    The ammount of soldiers the Imperium can raise if needed is daunting to say at least. No other organisation have even close numbers (yes I woulds say that they outnumber the 'Nids). Your standard Hive World can raise an army millions strong. A sub-sector even more.

    Follow Mantis tips and if you have any further questions, direct them to us! We'll gladly serve!

  8. #7
    Senior Member Inquisitor Leet's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the feedback!
    Here is fluff for the Crusade/campaign so far...

    The Tau Empire has expanded and conquered about a dozen planets on the edge of the Damocles Gulf. Reports from survivors told tales of strange new alien life forms being used as soldiers by the Tau. The alien life forms are Genestealer hybrids that a slightly renegade ethereal named Sun’o, has captured, bred, and using an advanced form of technology taken complete control of. The ethereal uses prisoners, both human and alien, as hosts for Genestealer eggs and once the eggs mature, they are implanted with a control device derived from a STC. The STC had been found deep underground in an Imperial Forgeworld when the world was taken over by Sun’o’s forces. The STC secrets were partially discovered, the Tau know it produces two thin disks, one silver, one gold. The silver disks are implanted in the heads of victims, wiping the mind of the implanted and making them completely subservient to anyone implanted with a gold disk. What the Tau don’t know is that the disks are a physical manifestation of psychic energy, giving the implanted a fairly strong psychic presence in the warp. The presence is a beacon to demons and the Tau, lacking any form of protection from psychic invasion are slowly being possessed by demons, making them act irrationally and brutally. The Tau under Sun’o are actively seeking more soldiers to take control of, they have made contact and dominated Orks, Tyranids, and even other Tau.

    News of a discovered STC has reached the ears of the Inquisition and the Adeptus Mechanicus. Imperial agents infiltrated the Tau attempting to discover if the rumors of the STC hold any sort of validity. Inquisitors found the news to be true, though they did not discover the location of the STC and they immediately summoned military official to begin the organization of a crusade to take the STC and the planetary systems near it.

    updated numbers
    Guardsmen: 1.6 billion soldiers
    Marines:2,500
    Titans: 12(1 emperor class)
    Ecclesiarchy: 250,000(Sororitas, priests, etc.)
    Inquisitors: 2(ordo xenos)
    Officio Assassinoriu: 2 (1 Callidus, 1 Eversor)
    Deathwatch Kill teams: 4
    Imperial Navy:1,200 ships(battleships, transports, etc.)
    Also I am going to expand the crusade area to encompass the Damocles Gulf and the Perdus Rift(pretty much all of the Tau Empire). It is a total area of 20,000 light years(my math may be wrong). This seems pretty large though. How fast can Imperial Ships travel?
    In an Imperium of a million worlds, what is the death of one world in the cause of purity?
    ~Inquisition credo

    He who allows the alien to live,
    shares its crime of existence.
    ~Inquisitor Apollyon

  9. #8
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    450 (x8)

    Interesting idea, but a few problems:

    1. Tau can't be possessed.. They're blunt as a wooden plank.

    2. Why would an ethereal just 'go rogue', they're raised at the heart of a society which values cooperation and unity. It's wierd to have one just come out with his own nefarious schemes. For one, why haven't his peers noticed if this campaign is supposed to cover the whole empire.

    Imperial ships travel through the warp.. Their speed varies depending on the fluctuations of the warp and the skill of the navigator, but suffice to say, it's impossibly fast.

    It's just too big.. That's my problem. I know I'm going to be accused of fluff conservatism, but you've turned the entire Tau background and metaplot on its head. Nothing to stop you doing that of course, it just blows my suspension of disbelief out of the water. The stuff about genestealers just isn't neccesary either.. The Tau already have creepy stalking monstrosities working for them, they're called kroot.

  10. #9
    Senior Member The_Ghost's Avatar
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    Cant believe I'm doing this AGAIN but I'm right there with mantis.

    Tau are psychic blanks, their soul fires are dim eldritch things which are hard to see and impossible to grasp. While this is advantageous in some ways (Cant be possessed.) it also means that none of them are ever psykers, nor as a result can they use psychic devices.

    Now that doesn’t mean that it cant be adapted, Gue' Vasa anyone? And really, why the huge scope? Most of it will be completely lost on your players, it would be better to have an invasion force for about 10 worlds, (Which to my view is what you have there anyway...) That way the crusade has a very definite beginning, middle, and end, and your players can realistically participate in each step. This increases interest and gives the players a greater sense of being involved in something more than a futuristic dungeon crawl.
    Quote Originally Posted by RecklessFable View Post
    Thought for the Day: Armylists are a three-edged sword. The list your backstory wants. The list that is optimal. The list of models you actually own.
    And HOW.

    (\_/)
    (X.X)
    (><) This is Dead Bunny.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    MyArmys: Points: W/L/D

    Imperial Guard: 2250: In Progress.
    Necron: 500: 2/1/1



    Join the Imperium today!

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