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So I have been a long time devotee to the 40k universe, and one of the biggest mysteries for me has been how the Chaos Marine legions replenish their ranks. I know the Chaos legions were never reorganized from 10,000 member strong armies to the 1000 strong chapters,but it seems like after 10,000 years of burning/pillaging and what have you, even these massive legions would be totally decimated. Further, most of the fluff seems to indicate that the remaining chaos marines fight in small warbands, and I've never come across fluff to indicate that the Chaos legions can replicate the complex gene therapy that neophytes require. SO, where are their new marines coming from? Maybe I'm taking the matter altogether too seriously, but I was just wondering.
Fabius Bile is definitely one man that can implant gene-seeds into new chaos marines.
There are others out there but AFAIK he's the only one named.
Mirage Arcana Podcast
The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.
Now, this is my understanding from all I've heard. I don't have all the access to the resources I once had so I can't say for sure but:
Every chapter, except the Grey Knights, has had someone fall from grace and over to chaos. Be it player made or no it is stated that no other chapter can claim that. As such, there is one source.
Half the AdMech, legions, guard, etc. fell from grace during the Horus Heresy, they would have taken mads amount of tech with them. Including things like how to make the Primarchs down to how to build guardening tools. There, allong with raids done to kidnap people is your second.
Finally, they're Daemons, in a universe they pretty much control, they can do it.
GW is good at covering all these bases, especially after 25 years of these questions.
A youth with his first cigar makes himself sick; a youth with his first girl makes other people sick. - Mary Wilson Little
Nearly all of the Legions at the time of the Heresy numbered a lot more than 10,000 troops, some legions should as the Ultramarines could call upon hundreds of thousands of Marines. I would not be surprised if legions such as the Sons of Horus and the Emperor's Children could muster similar numbers.
The forces of Chaos are not just Chaos Marines though. They have millions of militiamen, cultists and renegade Imperial Guard legions at their disposal. No doubt that the very best warriors from these mortal men are taken and created into Chaos Marines. Fabius Bile does have some capacity to turn men into Marines, and there are probably some forge world and Adeptus Mechanicus operations under their control that have the facilities to create new Chaos Marines.
- Watch this space.
I don't think it's something GW ever really thought through in a huge ammount of detail, even with Fabius Bile, it's still implied that the vast majority of chaos marines are the millenia old veterans, which is odd.. Also, Fabius Bile doesn't use geneseed.. He uses a really unstable chemical technique developed during the age of apostacy which produces beings of similar (actually superior) strength to a marine, but with none of the implants, a tendancy to randomly suffer organ failure, and several major psychoses. The only geneseed the legions have is what they can capture from the Imperials.. Traitor geneseed is too mutated to work any more.
In short, it's an odd one, which has never really made any sense.. You just have to suspend disbelief I think.
I guess it makes a little more sense when you consider how CSM fight. In game, they're just another army with similar stats to every other marine army, but in the fluff they're the elite champions of the chaos gods. The vast, vast majority of chaos forces will have no marines at all.. Just hordes of mutants, traitorous soldiers, spawn and plague zombies. When the chaos legions are deployed, it's the ultimate last resort, the point at which an objective has become so valuable that the chaos gods are prepared to risk their most powerful weapons in order to succeed.. A warband of CSM will be able to take on most enemies and win with very few casualties, it's only in the big sieges and massive attrition combats like Cadia when they're going to have much chance of losing.
The Emperor's Children were actually one of the smallest legions at the time of the Heresy, I believe, with about 30,000 marines.
Salamanders were the smallest, and I know Space Wolves were 'one of the smallest' at least according to WD246 (US) and a few other SW sources.
I don't remember anything saying that the Emperror's Children were terribly small, though it's been a bit since i read their IA and other fluff.
This the way I figure it, however I'm still new so it's probably wrong.
SM= Gene Seed
IG= Lotsa Lotsa humans in the 41 Millenium
Chaos= SM and IG falling to Chaos many many times
Necrons= Phase Out and rebuild
Tyranids= Lotsa aliens, also biomass from dead Tyranids can be used to make new ones.
Tau= Erm...makin' babies?
Eldar= Same as Tau?
Dark Eldar= Makin'....evil babies?
But that's just my theory, I honestly don't have a clue about the last three. >_<
Moo! I'm a gopher!
+ in the "real" world of 40k you would hardly ever see full CSM armies ducking it out against SM: it would be more like lost and damned: loads of critters backed up by some CSM.
Even when a full company's worth of CSM's would fight on a planet there would be half a million cultist, traitors and daemons surrounding them
Got a "good" rumour from a GW staffer? Forget about it, LO'ers know more than any random GW shop staffer.
Voor alle nederlanders:
The Dutch Legion
-The God of all Machines
There are also a few loyal SM that turn to Chaos. They maybe the Red Corsairs, but I don't see that stopping them from joining a legion. Let's say, for example, there's a Space Wolf who really REALLY loves combat, he maybe influenced by Chaos to turn. His bloodlust not forfilled he may then turn to be a Khorne worshipper.
Black Templars 3000 points
Tau Empire 1750 points
Tyranids 1500 points
Hordes of Chaos *Coming soon*