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So I've been thinking about this for awhile now: what exactly is the mental state of a Chaos Space Marine? After playing DoW for awhile, they seem to laugh maniacally and seize at random times, and often claim to hear voices. Now, while I realize there referring to the Chaos Gods, is it also a possibility that there just schizophrenic? Are the devoid of any rational thought, and just demented killing machines?
I understand that they had a significantly enhanced intelligence, due to genetic modifications, and mental conditioning, etc. I like to think, though, that they have retained some of this intelligence. Khorne worshippers seem to follow the trend of mindless killing machines, but someone like, for instance, a Slaanesh marine, seems to much more lascivious. Nurgle, on the other hand, seems like the utterly demented kind to me. The only really rational marines seem to be followers of Tzeentch, who, as I understand, pride themselves on scheming, manipulation, and insidiousness. Chaos Marines in general seem to psychopathic overall, something that doesn’t surprise me given their background ( ). There are certain specific marines like Abbadon who seem to be quite cunning, which leads me to believe that following a specific god (other than Tzeentch) condemns one to a life of mindless servitude.
So anyways, what are your thoughts on the matter? Would a Chaos Marine being able to understand exceedingly complex ideas as quickly (or at all, for that matter) as there loyalist counterparts? Are Chaos Space Marines complete lunatics, or have they retained at least some of there enhanced intellect through there corruption by the Chaos Gods?
Well remember that Khorne's Legion the World Eaters have a chip in their brain that increases their aggression levels and turns them into butchering machines. - But the answer is YES. They are able to understand extremely complex ideas. Take a look at the Alpha Legion, they're extremely intelligent and they more often than not succeed in their plans.
Take a look at the Word Bearers, sure they're religious zealots of Chaos - but they're also skilled Orators, Propagandists, Demagogues and Spiritual Leaders. Take a look at the Thousand Sons, their Sorcerers are the very best of all the Legions. They're veterans of ten -thousand- years of Warfare against not only xenos but also other daemons and especially their Space Marine Brothers.
Many of the books of war and rules of engagement were written -by- Chaos Marine Primarchs. And they're still used today (41st Millenium). Theoretically speaking the Warp does twist your mind, but only those who aren't strong of will become psychotic monsters. Those who have much will-power become stronger and acctually gain a higher perception of things.
but then again, this being chaos, there will be just as many psychotic lunatic and bumbling warpwracked half-spawn. But most of the members of the chaos legons are coherent, some legions as a whole are more pyschopathic (world bearers and death guard aren't to clear in the brain department).
It also depends on how long a marine dwells in the eye of terror. Alpha Legion hardly ever travel into the eye of terror so remain more human.
Got a "good" rumour from a GW staffer? Forget about it, LO'ers know more than any random GW shop staffer.
Voor alle nederlanders:
The Dutch Legion
As Adahn said, it's totally legion dependant. Varying legions will be in various states of rational thought and abilities.
The 4 cult legions are a little odd really. Arguably, each marine from these legions is a mini daemon in his own right. Certainly with Plague Marines and Rubrics, they are arguably little more than thralls of the Chaos powers. With regards to Slaaneshi and Khornate marines, I'd argue that their sanity and mindset has simply been warped, BUT they still retain the intelligent thought and cunning of a marine.
The Bezerkers on DoW are absolutely fantastic. Nothing better than ordering them to move only to have them shout back, 'WHY SHOULD I?' or 'YOU WANT THIS WORTHLESS TRINKET?'
As for the undivided legions.. i think it'll vary from company to company.
The marines depicted in DoW (the original) are the Alpha Legion (hence cultists)... so while they're clearly nuts, the millenias have also focused their minds to be pure fighting machines. As in, that's all they live for, even more so than an Imperial Marine.
Perhaps in DoW the Alpha Legion have been a little more Chaosified than they should have, but they've done a fantastic job overall.
So for this reason, I think that they're insane, rock hard AND extremely intelligent all at the same time. A dangerous combination for anyone.
Out of all the undivided Legions, I'd say the NightLords are the closest to being actual loonies. Seeing as they started recruiting from convicts and lowlifes anyway. Although.. the Iron Warriors are supposed to be really paranoid which i think is dead funny. The only thing worse than an acid spitting paranoid 8' tall giant, is an acid spitting paranoid 8' tall giant operating a vindicator cannon. Heh heh. good stuffs.
See Forgeworld IA writer- Warwick Kinrade, summed this up for me to a degree in the preface to IA4, we understand and rationalise things in human terms, any attempt to write from the point of view of another race is futile, because we dont have the concepts. This would also apply to chaos marines, they are no longer human, their minds do not work in human terms, ascribing them some human based malady like paranoi, or being a psychopath is wholey inaccurate, their mings and sentinence have been changed by the warp. To give you a simple analogy - "for those of you watching in balck and white, the blue ball is the one behind the pink" (rather famous BBC moment)
Everything you have been told is a lie!
"for those of you watching in black and white, the blue ball is the one behind the pink"
:yes: Absolute class. Only the Beeb really.
I think they're great points. I guess Marines themselves are only on the cusp of humanity, so when they turn to Chaos, I guess it's the needle that breaks the cactus's back.
What I really like about the Chaos marines though, is that, while they're not human as such, they used to be so they're not completely alien to the point that we don't have a chance of understanding.
This makes them tantilizingly interesting.
Eliphas the Inheritor did show himself to be quite eloquent, intelligent and a skilled tactician in DoWC so that should be proof enough. - Though the CSM depicted in DoW are usually all shown as crazed, maniacal evil nut-jobs there are some who are lucid.
I loved Eliphas's voice in DOW DC.
He was really eloquent, but wholly evil. Great combination. On the whole the voices of DOW are fantastic.. apart from the Eldar who make me want to puke out my own spleen and suffocate myself with it.
I love the way he says 'Fall back and regroup.' too. He says it really happy like he's acheived something. heh heh.
My favourite quote from dawn of war is the "Damnation! Where is our support!" when a squad of chaos marines without a champion breaks. It makes it very clear that it's not their fault, it's yours..I'd probably place noise marines as far and away the most insane creatures in the chaos army, yes, more so than plague marines or khorne berzerkers.Khorne worshippers seem to follow the trend of mindless killing machines, but someone like, for instance, a Slaanesh marine, seems to much more lascivious.
Remember that these guys have had brain surgery to amplify their hearing many times over, and then feed it back into the pleasure centres of their brains. Any loud noise is going to make them overstimulate violently.
Khorne berzerkers might seem a bit mad, but evidence suggests they only go frothing during battle. Outside of battle, of course, they still want to get back into battle so they can have a glorious slaughter and be closer to their patron, but besides a hugely aggressive attitude it seems they're quite capable of rational decision making.
I think that the greatest example to look at for Chaos thought processes is Abbadon the Despoiler.
This man (marine) has alone successfully brought all of the nine traitor legions under his sole command, not just once, but thirteen times. That should be a small testament to the mind of a Chaos Marine. A great leader, obviously a great leader, he just is very skilled.
So, that should imply that most Chaos Lords do know what they are doing, and thinking rather extensively, rather than simply crushing their enemies, seeing them driven before them, and hearing the lamentation of their women.
Last edited by Adrian MalSeraph; April 24th, 2007 at 21:28.