Unknown Primarch

[Atma]

They could be Blood Angels successor chapter, but they do not suffer from the Black Rage. Granted, another successor chapter has beaten it (Lamentors) but the Blood Angels don't seem to suffer from extraordinary bad luck (just stupidity).

They could be a chapter remnant of the Word Bearers, considering what Eliphas said. However, this is still unlikely as Lorgar would've killed any "loyal" elements to his army when he first turned to chaos.

They could be the survivors from the drop site massacre of the traitor legions. There were at least some Deathguard and what not that commandeered the Einstein.

The Thousand Sons does seem the most logical choice. The number of psykers in their chapter means nothing as all they do is recruit from worlds with a high number of psykers. However, their librarian armor looks quite a bit like pre-heresy Thousand Sons. Also, some Thousand Sons survived the dropsite massacre so that could tie in with the above.

Also, when chaos beats the SMurfs in DoW, it's said that Abaddon took great pleasure in their defeat, even though the Blood Ravens were not around during the Horus Heresy.

[Karmoon]

Originally Posted by Atma

They could be a chapter remnant of the Word Bearers, considering what Eliphas said. However, this is still unlikely as Fulgrim would've killed any "loyal" elements to his army when he first turned to chaos.
.

*pssst*

Fulgrim - Emperor's Children

Lorgar - Word Bearers.

[Saraneth]

Given their name, it does sound like they are using a mix of Blood Angel and Raven Guard gene seed, however, if they are decendened from the Thousand Son it would be cool and hence, under the laws of awesome, they are.

[Lady Bastet]

Slightly off topic but seemingly necessary-

The Imperium is unlikely to mix or otherwise tamper with the gene-seed with a few special exceptions the gene-seed comes from a known loyalist Space Marine Legion.

The 21st or Cursed Founding *did* involve tampering with the gene-seed to create several Chapters with serious problems (think obvious mutations).

The 13th or Dark Founding may have been a similar botched attempt to improve the Space Marines. I have always thought that they used traitor gene-seed here and covered their tracks.

[ze_poodle]

They can't be a Blood Angels successor, since they don't suffer from the Black Rage, and in fact show no signs of ever suffering from it. Besides, the Blood Angels simply wouldn't let anyone make another successor chapter after the Lamenters, who were something of a disaster.

The best bet is Thousand Sons, due to two factors:

1. Blood Ravens favour knowledge and wisdom as the highest virtues, and utilise meticulous planning and the precognitive abilities of their Librarians (whom they have lots of) to defeat the enemy. This is exactly what the Thousand Son's combat doctrine was during the Heresy.
2. Their armour is red and white, similar to the pre-Heresy Thousand Sons colour scheme.

We can assume that the name was intended to throw people off the track. There were huge stocks of traitor geneseed left over after the Heresy; they were all recorded as destroyed, but the Thousand Sons never really turned traitor - they were forced to, as the Space Wolves attacked Prospero under the misguided assumption that they had thrown in with Horus - and a doubtful High Lord may well have thought that he could re-use their particularly potent geneseed (it favours psychic talent) to create even better Marines.

[The_Giant_Mantis]

Originally Posted by Andy from Ozzie

Most of the evidence points to them being part of the thousand sons.

Not specifically.. Just some dubious source. I don't think they're descended from a respectable loyalist chapter anyway, as some of Eliphas' quotes in that game are very revealing..

Captain Thule: You won’t hold that for long, daemon-spawn!
Eliphas the Inheritor: Daemon-spawn? One so hopelessly ignorant of his origins should not be so quick to insult another’s parentage, brother.
Captain Thule: We are not brothers, heretic.
Eliphas the Inheritor: *laughs* Of course not. My mistake.

Originally Posted by Andy from Ozzie

They have a large proportion of librarians

Being thousand sons geneseed wouldn't result in having any more librarians than normal. The thousand sons had a lot of librarians because their homeworld was populated by psychic mutants, it's not really anything to do with Magnus.

[Maelstrom]

Originally Posted by Zveroboy

I'm sure there were. Many of the Legions had troops who were Terrans, those of the original Legions who fought on Terra during the War of Unification and into the Great Crusade. Captain Nathaniel Garro of the Death Guard and Captain Iacton Qruze of the Sons of Horus are two such men.

It many be possible that a loyalist splinter group from one of the Legions has turned, over time, into the Blood Ravens.

The only known marines who remained loyalists and survived escaped on the Eisenstein and were lead by the previously mentioned Captain Garro*. A few of them even became the first grey knights. It is quite possible the there where other splinter factions in the legions that could have remained loyal to the emperor, but for them to survive, they must have been far away from Istvaan and the major events of the Horus Heresy.


* although Captain Garro was from the Death Guard Legion, it has been stated that the other loyalists came from many of the traitor legions.

[ze_poodle]

Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis

Being thousand sons geneseed wouldn't result in having any more librarians than normal. The thousand sons had a lot of librarians because their homeworld was populated by psychic mutants, it's not really anything to do with Magnus.

Well, I'd imagine that if the source of psychic power lies in the biological configuration of the brain, then having your genetic structure changed to resemble that of a person with godlike psychic power would give you similar, if not as potent, talents.

[Saraneth]

Originally Posted by ze_poodle

The Thousand Sons never really turned traitor - they were forced to, as the Space Wolves attacked Prospero under the misguided assumption that they had thrown in with Horus

Actually, Horus was the one who suggested to Russ that he kill them, rather than arrest them had been his previous orders.

It would certainly be a good way to throw off the inquisitors, "We aren't Thousand Sons, we're clearly Blood Angels or Raven Guard", when really their keeping a bigger secret than the Dark Angels ever did.

[Zveroboy]

Originally Posted by Maelstrom

The only known marines who remained loyalists and survived escaped on the Eisenstein and were lead by the previously mentioned Captain Garro*. A few of them even became the first grey knights. It is quite possible the there where other splinter factions in the legions that could have remained loyal to the emperor, but for them to survive, they must have been far away from Istvaan and the major events of the Horus Heresy.

Before the Horus Heresy novels came out, yes, Cpt. Garro was the man who escaped at Istvaan. Now that the novels are out, the list of people who made it back to Terra has increased to incorporated the Astartes who followed Garro, Captain Iacton Qruze, and three remembrancers (if I can recall correctly: Keeler, Oliton and Kellerman?) And yes, these people do go on to greater things.

The galaxy is a big place and, even after Istvaan, some of the Legions were spread far and wide across the cosmos. There are plenty of places to avoid war in the galaxy, especially in the early days when the Imperium only had very tenuous links to it's territory. Don't forget that the Heresy lasted 7 years, an incredibly short time in the scale of things. A Splinter group caught in a warp storm, for example, could have easily missed out on the Heresy and the subsequent rebuilding.

This point is for some other people: All Space Marines are 'brothers'. Just because Eliphas calls Thule a 'brother' doesn't neccesarily mean he is from the Word Bearers. I find it hard to think that they are even descended from the Word Bearers as they were a Legion who were total in their conversion to Chaos.