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So I played my first 2 games in 5th edition after a few year hiatus and the first game with my new marines. It ended up being two games at 750 pts (all I have) both were just kill everything, no turn limit, no objectives. Here was my list for both games.
10x Tactical Squad 170
-with free missile launcher and flamer
5x Scout Snipers 75
5x Terminators 200
-with multi melta and Flamer.
-heavy bolter sponsons
Battle #1 Against Tyranids
This was a young kid with a somewhat suspect list, and not the best grasp of the rules, but them I’m no beardy vet myself.
Broodlord with Genestalers about 12
Close Combat Carnifex
20 Shooty gaunts
3 Zoanthropes with warp blast.
Board was 48"x 48": ruin on the left, ruin in the middle, Forest half in my deployment on the right, Hills in both deployment zones.
I set up first, Dread on the left behind the building, Combat Squad with missile on the right of the hill, Termies in the middle of the hill, scouts on the right and Predator beside them. The other combat squad and the captain were in the forest.
He deployed Zoany’s across from my Dread, Gaunts next to them. Carnifex on the right side of the building in the middle and Stealers preparing to run into the woods (they scouted forward).
I stupidly try to move my captain and squad through the woods so I can shoot the stealers I go 2” and end up right in the middle of the woods. Dread moves through the building towards the Zoany’s. Terminators move up the middle
Shooting is ineffective Scouts and Pred do no wounds on the Carnifex. Missile Launcher and the Termies kill two Stealers. That could have gone better.
He moves Stealers forward and runs through the wood. Carnifex runs forward. Gaunts run forward into range of Marines next turn. Zoanys move up and get a weapon destroyed on the Dread. Now the Stealers charge the Captain and Squad and wipe them out, flesh hooks or something so cover is no help.
Termies move towards Carnifex. Dread moves towards the Gaunts. Shooting again does almost nothing. I think my Predator crew had been drinking. Dread just misses charging the Gaunts. Termies charge the Carnifex, But 3 wounds on it, I lose my Sergeant.
He moves his gaunts past my dread and Stealers towards my scouts. Zonys Kill the Dread,
Gaunts reduce the Marine squad to just the missile launcher (those little blighters get a lot of shots!). Combat: Stealers absorb genetic material of the scouts. And the Carnifex loses another wound while pasting two terminators.
So I’ve pretty much lost already. One terminator ends up killing the Carnifex. And I kill a couple more Genestealers with the Predator before everything dies.
After Action Report.
I should have never went into the trees, with the genestealers. My Dread just sort of wandered around as a constantly changed my mind what I wanted it to do. Predator and Scouts need to get their eyes checked. Afterwards he said my Terminators shouldn’t have had an armour save against his monstrous creature which seem reasonable. That said his Carnifex had something like 2D6 +5 attacks which seemed a bit excessive to me, something I need to look into. Need to learn the rules better and become better at avoiding combat.
Battle # 2
Middle aged guy who was still thinking fourth edition, but a nice guy.
Commander with two Crisis suit Bodyguards
Two squads of 12 fire warriors
Board is pretty similar to last time, ruin on left, woods on right, only without the big ruin in the middle.
I hide my Pred and Dread behind the building on the left. Marines in one squad with termies behind them on the far left. Scouts infiltrate into the building the Armour is hiding behind. Not sure why I have just divided my army in half, have to remember that for next time.
He goes Fire warriors on the far left and right with Broadsides and Suits in the middle.
Marines and termies run forward on the left. Pred poked around the building, Dread walked through it, and out of sight.
Shooting, Pred and Scouts shoot at the Suits and do nothing.
He stands except the Fire warriors on the right who move forward to rapid fire my Marines.
Rapid firing kills two marines. FW on left kill a scout. Broadsides fail to hurt the Pred, and Suits kill 2 more marines.
Dread comes out of the ruin towards FW on left. Marines go towards FW on right and Termies slide into the middle. Flame and pistol FW on right kill 2. Pred and Scouts again do nothing. Dread roles a 1 to wound Broadside. Termies don’t wound suits. Combat finally! Time to show these xeno scum the fury of the Emperors finest. Captain kills a Fire Warrior and other 6 marines kill 2. Fire warriors kill 2 marines. And he sticks around.
He moves suits away from termies and then shoots. FW on right wipe out scouts. Broadsides kill the dread and then shake the Pred (not sure about multiple targets). Suits kill two termies. Combat, no deaths either side. Yes a captain and four marines can’t kill a fire warrior.
I move the Shaken Pred forward maybe I can tank shock something cause shooting is not working. Termies continue plodding towards suits and are unable to kill anything with shooting. Combat, again no wounds either side.
Tau stand and shoot. Broadsides weapon destroy and stun the Pred. Suits and Fire warriors kill the remaining Termies. I think I might have finally managed to kill a Fire warrior in combat, but it’s to late to have any effect.
After Action Report
There may have been another ineffective turn in there but I can’t remember. So I got massacred facing two very different armies. I’d like to contribute this slightly to they were pulling from larger collections and were able to tailor their army to mine. But regardless I got stomped on. I’m not sure what I could have done differently, unless terrain had of been deployed better. But my shooty marines were outclassed at shooting, and running across the board at him, had what I guess were predictable results.
I hope this wasn’t too hard to read, and that my abbreviations were understandable. Any comments on the list, my playing, or my writing are always appreciated.
Last edited by sultansean; January 31st, 2009 at 18:55.
Do you remember if the 'fex your opponent had was armed with two sets of big crab-like claws, or one set of crab-like claws + scything talons?
I have, personally, tooled a 'fex that has got 1d6+4 attacks on the charge, 1d6+5 if it gets into contact with more than four models. This is the most I can get onto the fex, so if he had 2d6+something then he was either cheating or didn't know the rules well enough.
Slightly suspect doesnt cover it, no wonder you lost!
For a start he's only got 1 set of troops, genestealers taken with a broodlord do not count as troops they are a retinue, second you cant have 12 + lord, only 11 and thrid the most amounts of attacks you can get on a fex is 12 6 on a D6, 1 for sythe tallons 2 for charging and 3 for the d3 tail and those are at S5. You can only have 1d6 and if you do you lose the basic attacks (2) a lot of player either dont realise this or "forget" to tell you. watch out for that one. Also a broodlord with genestealers CANNOT fleet, the broodlord dosn't have the rule! therefore they can run but not assault afterwards!
finaly how the heck did the zoans kill the dread! they should have passed a psychic test each, rolled to hit (1 or 2 shots) so im supprised they did anything! Lastly a point id like to make to you, how did you only manage to inflict 3 wounds on the fex, and only lose your sargeant in return? surly with a dogey no of attacks and the fex ignoring your saves you would have been masacred? Any a lot of younger player have no idea what theyre doing with nid lists, granted there are some but 4/5 wont. Its worth checking up on those rules for next time. Nice reports though
i thik the Nid' player was using the advantage that his codex is so different from others he can sort of "sculpt the rules" to his liking. Seriously thats low Nid's are already great some guy doesnt have to be a poop and ruin the game. The easiest way to combat this is just pick up the codex and skim it to get the general idea
The Carnifex had Scything Talons, Crushing Claws and the Scythed Tail, I think. And I was taking armour saves with my Terminators which I shouldn't have been because I now know that Monstrous Creatures don't allow them. So my termies are going to be running away from it next time. Which is really depressing because they were the one unit that did something.
just to give you a tip, its not the terminators that youve got a problem with, its the type. CC terminators with lighting claws, lead by a chaplain will destroy a fex very quickly. The other thing you have to note is that fexs can strike at I2 meaning your powerfists will be anhialated before getting a look in. If you use standard termies vs nids, a) dont or b) use their stormbolter and high saves to destroy the synaptic links. If you noticed that the only synapse on the board was the broodlord, and im willing to bet he was no where near the guants. If you dont already know, synapse creatures include hive tyrants, warriors and broodlords, with ocasional zoanthropes. If not in synapse there is a penalty inflicted. (Im not sure how much else i can say due to copyright infringement) So unless the zoans had synapse and were near the guants, you only had to kill 5 to cuase a moral check and with ld5 they would probably fail. Normal lists would have warriors in them, so storm bolter them to hell and back and the rest of the army will panic and run.
It is definatly worth while finding a copy of the codex as nids have a load of odd rules such as + and - weapon strenghts that non nid player just wouldn't know about.
Best of luck
The most attacks a Carnifex can have on a charge is 1d6(pair crushing claws)+1d3(scythe tail)+1(bio-plasma)+1(scything talons)+2(tusked) or 1d6+1d3+4 attacks. Seems like your opponent's carnie had claws, talons and scythe tail for 1d6+1d3+1+1 on a charge (or up to 1d6+5). His mistake is that he thought each claw gets +1d6A (the 1d6A is for the pair of claws).
Zoanthropes make great tank poppers if they can get within range. Their Warp Blasts hit at 50% and are as powerful as the Tau's railgun. Their LD are high enough that they don't have to worry about failing too much and they are tough to kill. Lastly, they could be Synapse Creatures, making them immune to Instant Kills and even that much harder to kill. With 3 Zoans, they're more likely than not to destroy the dread and vehicle.
Its not suprising that the Carnie only killed 1 termie in CC. If not upgraded, they both attack at I1 and the carnie hits on 4+ whereas marines hit it on 3+. If there is not 5 termies or more in base contact with it, the Carnie cannot use its tail attack, and if you roll 1 for crushing claws, you have a carnie with only 2A that turn. Finally the termies get 5+Inv save against the carnie (but 2+ armor save against just about everything else).
Btw, nice battle reports.
Last edited by jy2; January 31st, 2009 at 19:06.
The ruling on broodlord is a little dodgey because in their codex entry It says "broodlord AND a retinue of 5-11 genestealers." where as normaly it says that the character MAY be accompained by a retinue. This is to represent the broodlord infiltrating behind lines with the help of genestealers to seed the population. It would also look odd to have a broodlord acompanying raveners for example.
Your point about the player thinking the claws each give 1d6 is very good, but it is VERY suprising that only 1 terminator was killed because as the player says in a message, he took saves. in theroy as the fex was charged and you have to try to get into base to base (i think) the fex would get 4 or 5 basic attacks from the claws and tallons and 2 from the tail. It is also possible to get a ws4 fex with a -1 to opponents WS which nearly all nid players who can spare the points take meaning the fex would hit on 3's and the termies on 4's. About 3-4 hit with 1-2 from the tail. the 3 or 4 will almost certainly wound with 1 from the tail. Thats 4-5 wounds, expecting 1 invulnaerable save thats 3-4 dead termies, even if they do hit back after. lastly zoans are a very fickle unit as they are only bs 3 and so will miss a fair bit (trust me on that one), they are much better as psy screamers and synapse, but on their day zoans will destroy a dreadnough easliy enough, i meant that the player was unlucky to have it blown up. so easily. Sorry if that sounds like im having a go but its better if things are corrected on forums rathern than in game.
Assuming you charge, your 5 termies will do:
15x2/3[%hit]x5/6[%wound, Pfist vs T6]x1(No save) = 8.34 wounds
and the carnie will do:
4x1/2[%hit]x5/6[%wound]x2/3[%penetrate 5+Inv] = 1.11 wounds
Even if the carnie has adrenal glands (WS+I) + toxic miasma, if it charges, it would do:
5x2/3[%hit]x5/6x2/3 = 1.86 wounds
and you would do:
6[3 still alive]x1/2x5/6x1 = 2.5 wounds
Moral: Always charge Carnifex with your termies but DON'T let it charge you!
Good to know, thanks for crunching the numbers.