2k point RTT - CSM vs. Tau/CSM/Daemons

[jy2]

A tale of 2 cities:

Last time I played against Necrons with my Guards, he managed to pull out a draw. It was 1K and he brought a mono and the nightbringer. The only reason why I wasn't able to phase him out was because he kept his warriors in reserve so that they didn't come in til turns 3 and 4. He played it very well considering all the firepower I had (I was expecting to table him).

The last time I played against dual-lash with my guards, it was at 1.5K. He had lash sorcerer and lash DP, 3 oblits, predator and 4 squads of CSM's (2 in rhinos, not sure whether they were cult or not). I would've tabled him had he not conceded.

[moob]

I've played against new IG a few times with my CSM. The games can vary drastically depending on their army composition and who gets first turn. Non-mechanized guard still isn't scary, but mech guard (ie, guard done right) can be scary... However, if it's not spearhead and I get first turn, IG doesn't really like 4 rhinos driving up 12" and popping smoke. On the flip side, if they've got melta vets in vendettas, and they get first turn, scout up, then melta my rhinos before I get to move, I've pretty much lost if it's not capture & control.

[The Prince of Excess]

An IG army that can't deal with 4 Rhinos is a bad IG army, especially is they lack Extra Armor. Gunlines are actually much better against CSM than Mech, unless it's Aircav. I run a more mixed list and Rhinos are pretty laughable. Unless it's a Wave Serpent, the early game is going to hurt bad for an opposing mech player.

The irony is IG is the best anti-armor army in the game but no one plays them like that, at least from the lists I read online and see in person.

[moob]

It's not that the IG army can't deal with 4 rhinos, but that if I go first they will have 1 turn to destroy them all (when they are smoking to get cover saves) before they're in the IG lines. Plus, my oblits / defiler will have hopefully shaken some of the more dangerous tanks... and if you're on foot, I don't have to worry about getting you out of transports before making charges. Plus, you're susceptible to lash if you've got boots on the ground. Oh well, I guess our experiences differ.

[The Prince of Excess]

How do they have to worry about charges? You've gone 24", the table is 48" long. You can double lash a unit or two into charge range, IG loves to break and run though so sacking two ~60points units is acceptable. 2/3 deployments and 1/3 missions are veeeeeery bad for mech CSM against IG as well but you already said that more or less.

The table is also 72" long and IG can bring enough men to play flanks, if you go first, you deploy first, so you're committing to one side or splitting, either way not a good thing for you, may not even be able to lash turn 1.

I just like to debate hypotheticals, it's really the only reason I post here. There are plenty of IG players who screw up deployment or have poor lists. The other IG guy at my shop just dumps as many men into a building and put the rest around the building, he loses to Deathwing. Player error > all.

Not trying to be a jerk, just like to debate. :]

[jy2]

That's why my mechanized guards always include an inquisitor ally w/mystics + emperor's tarot. The tarot is huge in trying to get 1st turn. Against many armies, the guards have enough firepower to severely cripple them on first turn (and if they don't deploy everything, Officer of the Fleet makes them think twice about keeping their units in reserves).

[Memnoch]

Great report as always, good read. The last battle against Daemons looked like a great battle. I looked at the daemons list first and thought thats not so bad, until I saw the combination of the DPs and Skarbrand. Brutal..just brutal.

[Mastershake]

@ The Prince of Excess- Wow man, you and I must have very different ideas of what an infantry army looks like. Calling anything an infantry list can field more effective at killing rhinos than say Vendettas and Hydras I'm simply not seeing.

An all-infatry list doesn't show up often in the metagame, it has too much trouble in objectives and bleeds kill points. It also tends to be very vulnerable to large marine squads in drop pods, and hates Dawn of War missions. If there is a tournament format still using VPs it could work simply because your units will be worth nothing to kill, otherwise I'm not seeing it doing that well.

[40kenthusiast]

I was the guy who played the Daemon army. I definitely shouldn't have brought it to the tourney without getting a better idea of how to play it, this was my first set of games with it (bar one practice games). The game with moob was literally the first time I'd rolled 1-2 on Daemonic Assault.

On the other hand, I did get 2 wins, so I guess I knew a bit.

In our game I made a few tactical errors. I should not have brought those troop squads towards the objectives, moving them towards the corners might have kept me the tertiary. I also skipped firing the changling's bolt on a round that mattered, gave moob a 5+ cover save he didn't deserve and forgot to call Changling on the first lash or oblit shot.

It might actually have been better for me that I rolled a 1-2, followed by good reserve rolls. Dropping in tank formation with skarbrand on the board might have gotten me run over by Berserkers. Worth considering.

[sirisaacnuton]

I had been wondering if you were the one playing Daemons or Necrons. Either one seemed plausible. Glad to see the Force Multiplier list in action...I've given it some more test runs (particularly in a Planetary Empires campaign lately). It sure is fun to play. Nowhere near the reliability of some of the top armies, but man those big monsters are fun.

Also, what about the deployment involving dropping in tank formation but without Skarbrand? Keep him in the 2nd wave (and just hope he comes in soon)...that way you're guaranteed that you can benefit from him first.