2500pts Space Wolves vs Nidzilla - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    jy2
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    797 (x8)

    2500pts Space Wolves vs Nidzilla

    This will be my last 'Ard Boyz 2500pt practice game before the real deal come May 15th. After this I need to work on my SW army.

    We’ve been discussing the usefulness of the tyrannofex in this thread in the Tyranids forum. My stance is that the tyrannofex is not a good unit, but it seems like a lot of people think otherwise because it is highly survivable and a solid AT unit with 2x 48” S10 shots per turn. So I’ve set up a game against a competitive Nid army, commandeered by my brother, against my Space Wolves.

    Now this game won’t prove whether the tyrannofex is a good unit or not. One game is not indicative of anything. That would require probably 100 or even 1000 games. However, my intent here is not to show whether it is effective or not, but rather that it is such a low-threat factor that I can beat a nid player simply by ignoring his tyrannofexes.

    So I will play with the following strategy:

    - I will ignore it unless if I absolutely can’t (i.e. if I get assaulted by it or there’s nothing left within range to kill).

    - I will kill off the rest of his army first. Only when I am presented with no other real threat will I take them out.

    I know Nids have a hard time against Rune Priest-spam so I will not use Jaws of the World Wolf on the Tyrannofex, though all other nids will be fair game. Like I said, I will ignore the big gun-bug and that includes using Jaws on it.

    Of course I did not tell my brother my strategy. I just told him I wanted to try playing against a good T-fex list and reassured him that I won't Jaws his T-fexes.



    SPACE WOLVES (My list)
    Ragnar Blackmane
    Rune Priest Blackheart - Chooser, Boltgun, Jaws, Living Lightning
    Rune Priest Loki - Chooser, Hurricane, Living Lightning
    Rune Priest Goldmoon - Jaws, Tempest's Wrath

    Inquisitor Ally - Bolt pistol, CCW, Emperor's Tarot, Targeter, 2x Mystics
    8x Wolf Guards - 4x w/2x Combi-flamers & 2x Combi-meltas & Powerfists (attached to Grey Hunters), 4x w/Combi-meltas in Drop Pod

    10x Grey Hunters - 2x Meltaguns, Power weapon, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod
    10x Grey Hunters - 2x Meltaguns, Power weapon, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod
    8x Grey Hunters - Meltagun, Power weapon, Wolf Standard (Ragnar + WG here)
    6x Grey Hunters - Meltagun, Power weapon, Wolf Standard, Rhino (RP + WG here)
    6x Grey Hunters - Flamer, Power weapon, Wolf Standard, Rhino (RP + WG here)
    6x Grey Hunters - Flamer, Power weapon, Wolf Standard, Rhino (RP + WG here)

    6x Long Fangs Alpha - 5x Missile Launchers
    6x Long Fangs Beta - 5x Missile Launchers
    Land Raider - Extra Armor, Multi-melta (Ragnar's unit here)

    Total - 2499



    This is pretty much my finalized 'Ard Boyz list. After this game I've got to work on my army. I have 1 more drop pod to build and some figures and vehicles to paint.



    TYRANIDS
    Hive Tyrant - 1x TL-D's, Heavy Venom Cannon, 2x Tyrant Guards

    Deathleaper
    2x Hive Guards
    2x Hive Guards

    Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs
    10x Termagants
    Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs
    10x Termagants
    10x Genestealers

    Harpy - Cluster Spines, TL-Heavy Venom Cannon
    Harpy - Cluster Spines, TL-Heavy Venom Cannon

    2x Carnifexes - Scything Talons
    Tyrannofex - Cluster Spines, Desiccator Larvae, Rupture Cannon
    Tyrannofex - Cluster Spines, Desiccator Larvae, Rupture Cannon

    Total - 2500



    We used some proxies here.

    Back row - Hive Guards, Deathleaper, Hive Guards
    3rd row - Tyrannofexes, Harpies (the Daemons), Carnifexes (I brought the dakkafexes by mistake)
    2nd row - Termagants, Tervigon, Hive Tyrant w/guards, Tervigon, Termagants
    1st row - Genestealers

    Unfortunately, I didn't take pictures during the game.

    Last edited by jy2; May 8th, 2010 at 05:27.
    Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
    Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
    Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2

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  3. #2
    jy2
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    797 (x8)

    Mission: Seize Ground - 3 objectives
    Deployment: Pitched Battle
    Initiative: Tyranids

    Deployment:
    There is a large area terrain in the middle of the board. On both its left and right are an impassable terrain that blocks LOS. There are 3 other smaller patches of area terrain - 2 on my side and 1 on his. I place my objective towards my right side of the board, he also places his towards his right (near his area terrain) and I put the last terrain to the right of the center crater.

    He deploys his gaunts in the front to act as screens. He staggers the 2 carnifexes in the middle between the gaunts. Behind the right gaunts he then places his hive tyrant + guards, 1 tervigon and 1 tyrannofex. Behind the left gaunts he places the genestealers, 1 tervigon and 1 tyrannofex. He decided to deploy his genes normally as I would probably castle up in the center if he outflanked them (plus, he didn't have hive commander). He staggers his Tyranid monstrous so that they are not all lined up perfectly for my Rune Priest's Jaws should I drop pod them. He places 1 harpy and 1 unit of hive guards behind each of the impassable terrains. The only thing in reserve for him is the Deathleaper.

    I'm not at all concerned about his tyrannofex's S10 guns as I defiantly deploy my LR up front without any cover along with Blackheart's rhino. I then place Loki's rhino behind my LR and another rhino behind Blackheart's rhino. To the right and left of my transports, I deploy 1 squad of drop pod grey hunters and a squad of long fangs each. Goldmoon will go with the unit of drop podding wolf guards. Thus, in my reserves are Goldmoon+WG's in drop pod and 2 empty drop pods.

    The Deathleaper reduces Blackheart's LD to 8 and I fail to seize the initiative.


    Tyranids 1
    The right tervigon spawns 13 gaunts and the left one spawns 11 but stops on doubles. Everything moves forward and whatever can't shoot runs. The tervigons catalyst his hive tyrant and carnifexes. He then fires both tyrannofexes and all 3 heavy venom cannons at my land raider and gets not so much as a single scratch on it. Hive guards are out of range of my rhinos so each unit shoots at a squad of foot GH's, killing 1 from each squad.

    Space Wolves 1
    Here comes the pain. I drop Goldmoon + wolf guards onto his objective. It scatters out of contesting range but is still in a very good position to hurt him with Jaws. Blackheart's rhino moves forward and they disembark. Goldmoon's Jaws goes off despite rolling 3d6 from Shadows of the Warp and it takes out 1 carnifex, 1 tyrant guard and the still-fertile tervigon. The wolf guards then put 1W on his hive tyrant and another wound on his tyrant guard with their combi-meltas. Blackheart also passes his psychic test and uses Jaws to take out the other carnifex. Loki's Living Lightning does 1W to the right harpy and the long fangs put 3W on the other tervigon. Finally, my GH's take out 7 gaunts from the left gaunt squad.


    Tyranids 2
    The Deathleaper drops on down by Goldmoon. Everything else advances. The right tyrannofex goes after the wolf guards and the 13 gaunts after Goldmoon. His right harpy flies towards the closest target which is my inquisitor's unit. The left harpy moves forward but stays behind the impassable terrain as it tries to flank my left side.

    The right t-fex drops a large blast and a template on the wolf guards (the template also hits Goldmoon who successfuly saves) and kills 3. The right harpy fires at the Inquisitor and kills his 2 mystics. The left hive guards shake Blackheart's empty rhino and the right hive guards stuns Loki's ride. His hive tyrant only kills 1 grey hunter from Blackheart's unit and the left t-fex stuns the LR, which then gets reduced to shaken due to extra armor. The tervigon tries to catalyst itself but is blocked. The gaunts and Deathleaper fail to wound Goldmoon.

    In assault, the harpy assaults the inquisitor and kills him. The t-fex mauls the last wolf guard. The gaunts charge Goldmoon and they tie combat with 1W apiece.

    Space Wolves 2
    1 empty drop pod drops near the middle objective (not sure if it is contesting). The LR advances about 12" and Ragnar's unit disembarks. Loki's unit disembarks and moves up as well. Both right and left GH's also move up. Blackheart moves up slightly but decides not to use his psychic powers when I found him to be within the hive tyrant's shadows in the warp range.

    Loki's unit and the right GH's shoot down the wounded right harpy. The 2 long fangs and my LR target his tyrant but he makes all his cover saves and is unharmed. Ragnar's unit and left GH's fire at his genestealers and only kill 3 thanks to a lot of cover saves made on his part.

    Goldmoon dies to his gaunts in assault. Ragnar and the GH's furiously multi-charge the genestealers and 2 squads of gaunts. The genes whiff big time, failing to kill a single grey hunter, and Ragnar by himself wipes out the entire squad of 7 genes whereasthe gaunts fall to my grey hunters.


    Tyranids 3
    Things are looking grim for the nids. His harpy fails its Instinctive Behaviour test and just lurks behind the impassable terrain. The Deathleaper goes back into reserves. The squad of gaunts near his objective and out of synapse fails their IB test and runs towards his area terrain, claiming his objective in the process. Everything else advances.

    The hive tyrant shoots down 4 from Blackheart's unit, including my wolf guard. 1 T-fex fires at the LR and does nothing. The other T-fex drops a large blast on Ragnar's unit but they pass all their armor saves. The tervigon catalysts itself and also drops a large blast on Ragnar's unit, killing 2 grey hunters. The right hive guards wreck 1 empty rhino. The left hive guards fire at my GH squad but fails to kill any.

    Because his hive tyrant is still partially in terrain, he fails to assault Blackheart's 3-man unit. The left hive guards assault the squad of GH's they fired upon and kill 1 in combat. They remain locked. His gaunts who were screening for his hive tyrant assault Blackheart's unit and kill my flamer-GH. In return, I kill 3 of his gaunts and he loses another 1 to No Retreat.

    Space Wolves 3
    My last drop pod comes in and contests his objective. My rhino with grey hunters heads towards my objective and pops smokes. The rest of my units advance towards his units. Shooting from my LR, GH's and Loki's unit kills his tyrant guard and puts another 2 wounds on his hive tyrant (1W left). The long fangs only manage to put 1W on his tervigon due to cover and FNP, and Ragnar's unit puts another wound on it with a melta shot (1W left).

    Loki's unit and my right GH's charge the tyrant and kill it, but not before losing Loki and 2 grey hunters. Ragnar's unit charges the tervigon and also kill it, losing 2 grey hunters in the process. Finally, the left GH's who are locked in combat with his hive guards use their wolf standard and wipes out the 2 hive guards.

    With just his Deathleaper, 2 tyrannofexes, 1 harpy, 1 squad of hive guards and 1 squad of gaunts remaining, the nids decide to retreat and come back to fight another day (he concedes).


    Victory to the Space Wolves!
    Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
    Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
    Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2

  4. #3
    Son of LO Heirodule's Avatar
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    344 (x8)

    So if ive read that right, all those 2 T-fexs managed to do during the game was kill 3 wolf guard and shake a landraider? Yikes... Anyway thanks for going to the bother of having a battle to test that T-fex list. One small question though, Jaws aside, how easy would it have been to take out those t-fexs, if you were actually bothering with them?
    Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature

  5. #4
    jy2
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    797 (x8)

    Actually they killed the squad of 4 wolf guards (3 to shooting and 1 in assault) as well as shake my LR. I've fired enough BS3 S10 shots to know that you need volume to really do any damage. This is from using my Heirophant with its 16x S10 shots and Barbed (Scythed) Heirodule w/12x S10 shots in Apoc games. Even with all those shots, the Heirophant can only take down 1-2 vehicles a turn. Thus, I was pretty confident that their rupture cannons would be more of a nuisance than an actual threat to me - he just didn't have the volume of fire to actually scare me.

    Those tyrannofexes would be hard for me to take out with my shooting, so the best thing to do was to not waste my AT on them. Save it for the units that my heavy weapons could actually hurt. That's why I just ignored them. They'll die more readily to powerfists/power weapons in cc than to my shooting unless I focused my meltas on them, which is actually kind of hard to do at 2500 with so many units on the board. So to answer your question, to kill it I would assault it using 2 Pfist units. That should kill it in 1 or 2 assault phases at most.
    Last edited by jy2; May 8th, 2010 at 05:30.
    Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
    Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
    Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2

  6. #5
    Senior Member Reeses's Avatar
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    Good report but i have to say the Nids did not have the units to deal with Space Wolves. This was a shooting and a hacking Gallery for the Space Wolves as they had superior maveuverablity, shooting and assault units. Jy2 you must have had a very fun time with your space puppies tearing through the tyranids killing monstrous creatures left and right. I believe these units:
    "Harpy - Cluster Spines, TL-Heavy Venom Cannon
    Harpy - Cluster Spines, TL-Heavy Venom Cannon
    2x Carnifexes - Scything Talons
    Tyrannofex - Cluster Spines, Desiccator Larvae, Rupture Cannon
    Tyrannofex - Cluster Spines, Desiccator Larvae, Rupture Cannon"

    Were the very downfall of the tyranid player as there is a consensus among most tyranid players is that they suck (which is now backed up by this report), while space wolves were using the best of the best; Rune Priests, Grey Hunters and Long fangs

    Again great game, congratulations on the win, maybe you can play against a 9 zoanthrope spore pod list. Make your Space Wolves work a little bit for the win... but nothing to strenuous
    Reese's Space Marine and Tyranid WIP Thread: Warp Masters and Friends

  7. #6
    jy2
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    797 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeses View Post
    Good report but i have to say the Nids did not have the units to deal with Space Wolves. This was a shooting and a hacking Gallery for the Space Wolves as they had superior maveuverablity, shooting and assault units. Jy2 you must have had a very fun time with your space puppies tearing through the tyranids killing monstrous creatures left and right. I believe these units:
    "Harpy - Cluster Spines, TL-Heavy Venom Cannon
    Harpy - Cluster Spines, TL-Heavy Venom Cannon
    2x Carnifexes - Scything Talons
    Tyrannofex - Cluster Spines, Desiccator Larvae, Rupture Cannon
    Tyrannofex - Cluster Spines, Desiccator Larvae, Rupture Cannon"

    Were the very downfall of the tyranid player as there is a consensus among most tyranid players is that they suck (which is now backed up by this report), while space wolves were using the best of the best; Rune Priests, Grey Hunters and Long fangs
    You can kind of say that my army is stacked against the nids. I've never really had problems against them. My space wolves are like paper to the nids rock army. And I agree that though the nid list is somewhat competitive, it is still not as competitive as a nid list with trygons and 2 hive tyrants. That army doesn't fear my Jaws of the World Wolf (well, except the tervigons if he takes them) and has much better damage output, though at a much shorter range.

    I haven't had good experiences with harpies. Then again, I've only used them once in my army and played against them once. They seem to have some potential but their damage output is limited.

    I think the tyrannofex is an inefficient unit. Low bang for the buck, of course they could get lucky and blow up a land raider with 1 shot once in a while.

    I actually like Carnifexes and think they're good units. I still like the dakkafexes a lot even though their cost is so much higher than before. Their only weakness? Yes, my army has the best anti-carnifex weapon in 40K. But against the other 10+ 40K armies, they're still solid.

    Again great game, congratulations on the win, maybe you can play against a 9 zoanthrope spore pod list. Make your Space Wolves work a little bit for the win... but nothing to strenuous

    I am not too concerned about 9 zoans in spores either, not when I have rune priests all over to stop their shooting 50% of the time. They're superman against armies without any psychic defense, but my space wolf army is just their kryptonite.
    Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
    Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
    Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2

  8. #7
    Senior Member Reeses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jy2 View Post
    I am not too concerned about 9 zoans in spores either, not when I have rune priests all over to stop their shooting 50% of the time. They're superman against armies without any psychic defense, but my space wolf army is just their kryptonite.
    Whoops forgot about your rune priests; as I said nothing too strenusous. I do have to agree that Carnifix's can be used effectively like having a dakkafex in a spore pod (my personal favorite is carny with bio-plasma, Brain-leech worms and Scything Talons in spore pod) but i believe the day of the Walky Fex is over

    Instead of zoanthropes maybe you should have your Space Wolves battle against a Hive Commander/ tyranid spore pod/ Trygon galore army like the one you used against the Battle Sisters. Just some thoughts
    Reese's Space Marine and Tyranid WIP Thread: Warp Masters and Friends

  9. #8
    jy2
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    797 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeses View Post
    Instead of zoanthropes maybe you should have your Space Wolves battle against a Hive Commander/ tyranid spore pod/ Trygon galore army like the one you used against the Battle Sisters. Just some thoughts
    Actually, I have played against that list, but we just didn't finish. We didn't really have to. 1st turn, I dropped both RP's w/Jaws on pods. They landed just out of Shadows range and proceeded to pop both dakkafexes and 1 tervigon. From that point on it was just downhill for the nids. Not just that, but the pod-GH squad was out of assault range of any of hist TMC's (and on an objective) and so survived to claim his objective (though if we had continued, he probably would've assaulted them with his trygon). Anyways I had to leave after turn 3 even though my wolves were well on their ways towards victory IMO.

    BTW, the list I was refering to was the one I used against the 2500pt Immo spam list here (New 'Ard Boyz 2500 challenge vs Witch Hunter Immolator Spam).
    Last edited by jy2; May 8th, 2010 at 20:46.
    Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
    Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
    Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2

  10. #9
    Senior Member Reeses's Avatar
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    So after all my ideas have been brutally crushed trying to think of a tyranid list that would be competitive against your Space Wolves. Do you think there is a Tyranid army build out there that would actually make your space Wolves sweat a little?
    Reese's Space Marine and Tyranid WIP Thread: Warp Masters and Friends

  11. #10
    jy2
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    797 (x8)

    Some armies are just designed to perform well against others. The easiest example is Dark Eldar. They tend to own MEQ armies unless playing in KP games....and I'm not just talking about barely winning. They can table most MEQ armies. Though I don't believe any single army can completely dominate another, I consider some armies "handicapped" against another.

    That said, I'd consider a nid list with minimal I1 big brutes and little reliance on psychic powers when playing against space wolves. Don't worry, my lists are meant to be all-comers list so I wouldn't really call it tailoring against the wolves.

    I'd maybe go something like this (at 2500pts):


    Hive Tyrant - 2x Scything Talons, Hive Commander, Wings - 255
    Hive Tyrant - 2x TL-D's, Old Adversary, 1x Tyrant Guards - 285

    2x3 Hive Guards - 300
    2x Zoans - Spore - 160

    Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Toxin Sacs - 185
    11x Termagants - 55
    10x Genestealers - 140
    10x Genestealers - 140
    10x Genestealers - 140

    15x Gargoyles - Toxin Sacs - 105
    15x Gargoyles - Toxin Sacs - 105

    3x Trygon - Adrenal Glands - 630


    With this list, I have the option of reserving a part of my army or just walking them all on the board depending on how the opponent deploys. I would deploy the gaunts and gargoyles up front to act as screens. My AT is probably not as good as the t-fex list, but I've got decent mid-range shooting and excellent assault units.
    Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
    Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
    Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2

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