2000pts The Greater Knights vs the Greater Good

[jy2]

I just had a battle against SabrX again, only this time, he brought his Tau. We are both trying out new things this time. SabrX is taking a kroot-heavy Tau army and I'm going to explore the "Shunt-Punch" Grey Knights (or what I like to call my Alpha-Strike Grey Knights) some more. I tried it in an previous game against the Guards (battle report here) and it did quite well. I'm going to explore it again, only this time, it's going to be even deadlier than before.


Grey Knights 2K (My list)

Mordrack
5x Ghost Knights
Librarian - Shrouding, The Summoning, Warp Rift, Teleport Homer

10x Strike Squads - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
5x Strike Squads - 1x Psycannon

10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo

Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter



Tau 2K

Shas'el - Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, Multitracker

2x Crisis Suits - Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, Multitracker
3x Crisis Suits - Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, Multitracker
3x Crisis Suits - Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, Multitracker

6x Fire Warriors
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots

6x Pathfinders - Devilfish, Disruption Pod

2x Broadsides
Hammerhead - Railgun, SMS, Target Lock, Disruption Pod, Multitracker
Hammerhead - Railgun, SMS, Target Lock, Disruption Pod, Multitracker


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PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Grey Knights:
First of all, we played it that you can shunt during your scout move. I know that there is some controversy surrounding this issue, but our reasoning is that if you can move flat-out or turbo-boost during your scout move (and even get the bonuses), then you should also be able to shunt. I believe that is the intent of GW - that you can perform special moves for your scout move as long as you don't end up 12" or closer to the enemy and as long as the unit is already deplored on the board. I discussed it SabrX and he agreed.

Now let's talk about theoryhammer, GK-style. What is Shunt-punch? Basically, it is a tactic where you take GK units with personal teleporters (interceptors and/or dreadknights) and use your Grandmaster's Grand Strategy to give them scout. Then for your scout move, you shunt those units to within 12" of the enemy. If you get the first turn, then you can basically assault with those units on turn 1.

Even if you don't get 1st turn, you move everything as close as possible to the enemy (but preferably behind cover) and shoot the crap out of them with S5 stormbolters, S7 rending psycannons and heavy incinerators. Then next turn, you will be assaulting.

Except with my army, I've added a little twist....Mordrack! Librarian will join his squad and on turn 1, they will deepstrike into terrain somewhere in the enemy deployment zone. As the ghost knights have stealth, you are looking at a unit with 2+ save and 3+ cover that will threaten the opponent along with all those interceptors and dreadknights. Then next turn, guess what? I can summon my footslogging greyknights while casting Shrouding. They will arrive in terrain with 3+ cover and then shoot the crap out of the opponent with more S5 stormbolters and S7 psycannons.

Or I could land Mordrack next to his valuable units - his suits and broadsides. If they are bunched up, then I probably will do this. If not, then I probably won't. This tactic does have its risk though. If there is no terrain nearby, then I will be left out in the open to get shot the F-up by plasmas and railguns. Why would I want to even attempt this? Because of Warp Rift. That power is potentially very devastating to I2/I3 broadsides and crisis suits.

If done right, I could potentially end the game by turns 2 or 3. However, in order for it to work perfectly, I will need a few things to go my way:

1) I need 1st turn if I want to assault.

2) I need to get 2-3 units with scout from Grand Strategy.

3) I need suitable terrain for Mordrack to land in.

In Seize Ground, I can combat squad if needed. I most likely won't use Grand Strategy to make my interceptors and dreadknights (DK's) scoring. But with 6 troop choices, of which 5 will probably infiltrate into forests for the 3+ cover, I think Tau will have the advantage here. In Capture and Control, I think I will have the advantage, as his army will probably have their hands full against mine. Unless he outflanks some of his kroots, he may not be able to reach my objective, but with my speed, I should easily be able to get to his. Annihilation may be a toss-up depending on how well his shooting phase turns out.

I will be the first to admit that this is not an all-comer's list. Actually, it is a really unbalanced army, designed with the sole purpose of trying to cripple the enemy early. As with most gimmicky lists (yes, this is one of the more gimmicky GK tactics), I'd probably win big or lose big. However it'll turn out, one thing I need to do is to play aggressively. In the long run, I will not be able to sustain my offense against a more balanced list. I need to hit him quickly. I would prefer 1st turn, but if I don't get it, I will have a backup plan ready. The main thing will be to present all my threats at once and overload him. The worst case scenario for me is if I get 1st turn, do my scout moves, and then he steals the initiative. Then he can cripple my scouting units.


Tau:
Are you kidding me? 100 kroots? This is not going to be an easy battle. One of the advantages of my army is that I can easily jump past screening units....but I won't be able to jump past all those kroots especially if he bubble-wraps them around his main force. In this game, I'm just going to have to go through them, something easier said than done, especially if they've got 3+ cover. Where are those purifiers when you need them?!?

His kroots can potentially throw a monkey wrench into my alpha strike plans. The thing is, infiltrate occurs before scout moves. Thus, all he has to do is infiltrate his kroots all over the place, and that there will foil my plans. Of course, that just means I'm going to take out his kroots first, but honestly, I am afraid of all those kroots. What my army fears most is Volume-of-Fire/Attacks (VoF) and that's what hordes provide in spades. Normally, my purifier list would do well against lists like these, but unfortunately, I'm not taking them in this battle. I need to play a smart game here.

Then there's the horrific firepower of Tau. That's 18 plasma shots, 18 S7 missile shots, 4 railguns and 2 large pie plates....and that's not including the 200 rapid-fire shots! He's got scary firepower and the VoF to severely cripple me. Oh, and he's also got pathfinders to strip away my cover....I'm going to have to deal with them early!

Overall, I think this is going to be an interesting battle.


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Battle report will be up tomorrow. Stay tuned....

[Karrain]

100 Kroot...where's a Tervigon when you need it?

[Rafici]

Except with my army, I've added a little twist....Mordrack! Librarian will join his squad and on turn 1, they will deepstrike into terrain somewhere in the enemy deployment zone. As the ghost knights have stealth, you are looking at a unit with 2+ save and 3+ cover that will threaten the opponent along with all those interceptors and dreadknights. Then next turn, guess what? I can summon my footslogging greyknights while casting Shrouding. They will arrive in terrain with 3+ cover and then shoot the crap out of the opponent with more S5 stormbolters and S7 psycannons.

Or I could land Mordrack next to his valuable units - his suits and broadsides. If they are bunched up, then I probably will do this. If not, then I probably won't. This tactic does have its risk though. If there is no terrain nearby, then I will be left out in the open to get shot the F-up by plasmas and railguns. Why would I want to even attempt this? Because of Warp Rift. That power is potentially very devastating to I2/I3 broadsides and crisis suits.

.

Sorry to ask but how can they deep strike on turn 1 without a drop pod?? (i dont know the codex that well) and do you not need to role for reserves when summoning???
I'm guessing Warp rift is basically JotW?

[BlackDow]

that special character can deepstrike wherever he wants without scatter (if i remember correct)
And the summoning is something like "pick an unengaged Grey Knights unit on the board and place it within six inches of the Librarium." Making this list very scary if you play something that needs a turn or two of shooting xP
tbh i dont know who will win this. 100 kroots...never seen that but Weight of Fire is what you use to bring down big, scary monsters so might work very well.
In normal games against Tau you take out the Elites and then Heavies, then focus on the troops. But in this...I wonder if the troops might be just as scary ^^

For the Greater Good and Whatnot!

[Rafici]

So with Rapid fire thats
50 wounds against T4 models With a 3+ save thats 16.6 unsaved wounds
33.3 wounds against T5 models with a 3+ save thats 11.1 unsaved wounds
16.6 wounds against T6 models with a 3+ save thats 5.5 unsaved wounds

Thats assuming all 100 can shoot that turn, against T4 your get 3.3 unsaved wounds from each Kroot squad.

I have never thought of fielding so many kroot but they could go some damage if they survive your shooting

[jy2]

100 Kroot...where's a Tervigon when you need it?

3+ cover with 4+ FNP would almost be damned broken, especially if the models were only 7pts each, not to mention furiously charging, poisoned kroots.

Sorry to ask but how can they deep strike on turn 1 without a drop pod?? (i dont know the codex that well) and do you not need to role for reserves when summoning???
I'm guessing Warp rift is basically JotW?

Mordrack has a special rule in that his unit can deepstrike on turn 1 and they don't scatter. Basically, you just place them anywhere on the board. You don't need to roll for reserves when using The Summoning. As for Warp Rift, you got that right. It's Jaws but in a flame template.

tbh i dont know who will win this. 100 kroots...never seen that but Weight of Fire is what you use to bring down big, scary monsters so might work very well.
In normal games against Tau you take out the Elites and then Heavies, then focus on the troops. But in this...I wonder if the troops might be just as scary ^^

For the Greater Good and Whatnot!

They sure are scary. I've actually played against Tau once before and in that game, his unit of 25 kroots/kroot hounds charged my 10-interceptors and beat them. Though it was mainly bad rolling on my part, kroots have decent assault.

And in this game, I don't think I have a choice. I won't be able to get to his elites/heavies without probably going through his kroots first. Now that might not necessarily be a bad thing if done right, as it'll protect me from retalitorial fire, but I expect to suffer casualties while doing so.

So with Rapid fire thats
50 wounds against T4 models With a 3+ save thats 16.6 unsaved wounds
33.3 wounds against T5 models with a 3+ save thats 11.1 unsaved wounds
16.6 wounds against T6 models with a 3+ save thats 5.5 unsaved wounds

Thats assuming all 100 can shoot that turn, against T4 your get 3.3 unsaved wounds from each Kroot squad.

I have never thought of fielding so many kroot but they could go some damage if they survive your shooting

Don't forget these:

50 wounds against T4 models With a 2+ save thats 8.3 unsaved wounds (against terminators)
8.3 wounds against T6 models with a 2+ save thats 1.4 unsaved wounds (against dreadknight)

[greggles]

Ya be we all know mathhammer only works on the internets .

The internets say a unit of templars with CCW/pistols has zero chance of destroying a dreadknight in the shooting phase with a bunch of single shot, 12 inch ranged, str 4 pistols.

But yet it can happen!


I'd suggest trying this list again at some point, without the ability to shunt on turn 1. That would tell you how realistic the list would work if the tournament disallows that.

[jy2]

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Mission: Capture and Control

Deployment: Spearhead

Initiative: Grey Knights (Yeah....)


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Deployment:

Map of the battlefield. (And no, that kid isn't my opponent )


Grey Knights deployment. I'm using a couple of proxies. The first is my assault marines for my interceptors. I also forgot one of my dreadknights so am using the big statue as a dreadknight.


Prior to deployment, I gave both of my dreadknights the Scout USR from Mordrack's Grand Strategy.


I'm using Lysander as my objective. No combat squadding.


My opponent's perspective of my deployment.


Tau deployment. He infiltrated 3 units of kroots and left 2 in reserves to outflank. He had to proxy some IG infantry as he was a little short with his kroots.


He put his objective all the way in the corner. Firewarriors will steal the pathfinder's devilfish on turn 1.


He also infiltrates his pathfinders in the bottom right tower (from my perspective). I then shunt both of my dreadknights towards his pathfinders with my Scout move.


Tau then proceeds to steal the initiative from me! (Oh noes.....)


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Tau 1

Tau movement.


His pathfinders light up my front dreadknight with markerlights. He then proceeds to concentrate his entire army's firepower into my dreadknights, killing 1 and putting 2W's on the other. Ouch!


Grey Knights 1

Since his crisis suits moved away and spread out, I decided (after long deliberation) to drop Mordrack's unit into terrain. I pass all of my dangerous terrain tests.


GK movement. My whole army moves towards his.


Left interceptors go after his kroots.


My HQ fires at his Shas'el's unit. Warp Rift removes 3 kroots from 3 different squads and 1 of the crisis suits. Stormbolters fail to do any damage as his suits made all their saves.

In other shooting, my dreadknight kills 5 of 6 pathfinders with its heavy incinerator. My stormbolters kill something like 10 kroots from 1 squad (no cover) and 6-8 from another 2 squads (with 3+ cover). My opponent had to make 4 LD 7 morales tests (2 kroot, HQ unit and pathfinders)....and passes all of them!

I am not in range to assault.


Tau 2

Only one of his kroots come in, and they come on his board edge.


Suits and vehicles reposition themselves.


Kroots get ready to rapid-fire the heck out of my termies.


Kroot rapid-fire fails to hurt my dreadknight, but railguns and 1 crisis unit finish the job.


He then focuses the entirety of his army - all 3 squads of kroots rapid-firing, the rest of his suits and any vehicles that did not fire at my DK - onto my HQ unit. I make a ton of saves and when all the dust settles, I've only lost 2 terminators, 1W from my librarian and 1W from Mordrack. I fail to generate another ghost knight at the end of the turn.


Grey Knights 2

My knights advance.


Mordrack's unit prepares to multi-charge 2 units of kroots. My left interceptors go after the 3rd unit of kroots.


Right unit shoots down 15 of the newly arrived kroots.


They then fail morale and break, unable to rally for the rest of the game.


My terminators fire stormbolters only and kill a couple of kroots.


Interceptors did not fire for fear of wiping out the unit (or taking them out of assault range). Instead they just charged.


I wipe out his kroots and then consolidate my interceptors so that half are in terrain. My terminators multi-charge 2 units of kroots.


I cause of lot of wounds, kroots cause none in return and I easily break both squads.


My terminators then consolite into terrain for the 3+ cover.


So far, he's killed both of my dreadknights. I've basically wiped out all 4 units of kroots and reduced the pathfinders down to just 1 guy.


To be concluded later today.....

[J2K]

Well, after the Tau stole the initiative and proceeded to kill 1 1/2 big knights, I thought you were doomed, nice comeback with killing over 80 models!

[Kapftein]

I think the Tau made a mistake in the first turn with focusing all his firepower at the dreadknights. But we will see maybe it was a good thing so his suits and tanks hold it out a little longer. I will definitely stay tuned for the next update.