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I finally played my friends' Chaos Space Marine army last week.
Let me clarify, there was not a single 'marine' in his army save one dreadnaught!
Crisis suit (Plasma, missile pod)
2 Crisis suit squad (same as HQ)
6 man stealth team
12 FW squad w/Devilfish
12 FW squad w/Devilfish
8 Gun drone squad
We rolled for mission and got cleanse (cool)
Omega mission, table quarters deployment, all the special rules (cool again)
At this point I still don't have a clue as to what is army consists of.
We take turns deploying our troops and the only thing he fields is a winged demon prince and the aforementioned dread. hmm.
I'm as far back as I can get and he's as far forward as rules allow, which is pretty close to the middle of the table!
Move - I get first turn and move around to the left abit so i can get los on the dread, the DP is still out of sight (very large mountain right in the middle of the table, placed there by guess who) Kroot found a little piece of cover and stayed there waiting for an ambush.
Shooting - Missiles in range and hit with 3. He tells me I need 6s to glance 'cause the dreads armor is 13! What!? 13? So of course I roll low and fail to glance. Oh well I'll get'm next turn, right?
Assault - Backed the suits up abit and relenquished my turn.
Move - The dread rolls for blood rage (I think thats what he called it) and moves 8". The DP rolls around to my right alittle, staying wisely out of sight of my all mighty Tau weaponry(remember I said that)
Shooting - He checks range of his 2 bolters, not even close. Oh, he's got 2 cc weapons and 2 TL bolters on that thing.
Assault - nada
Roll for deepstrikers and I get my gundrone squad(stealths still to come) which deploy behind the dread about 20" away. Oh so close, but not quite! Stupid scatter.
Move - Swing everything around to the left alittle more and can still see the dread but not the DP, FWs deploy here as it appears to be somewhat of a bottle neck.
Shooting - Same as first, 3 hits no glances
Assault - move suits about 7" away from fish
Chaos (oh boy, here we go)
Dread rolls for rage and nothing, sloggs 6" towards the drones (cool)
DP makes an about face and flies 12" back to my left. Hmmm. I can see him now for the first time. He rolls and gets all 3 of his reserve units to come in.(great) And procedes to summon 2 squads of bloodletters and one squad of demon puppy thingies. One squad of bloodletters and the pups scatter right at me some 6-8" or so,(ack) the other bloods stay were they deployed. Now, much to my suprise, all 3 new squads get to move! Ack! which means the pups are now in assault range of my recently disembarked FWs!
Shooting - The dread shoots at the drones and the 2 shots deflect harmlessly off their armor
Assault - The pups charge through a 4" gap between a fish and some terrain. Hang on a sec let me add this up. They start with 2 attacks, one for the charge, one for the mark of khorne, one for this, one for that, etc. Yep, thats 16,000 attacks. Needless to say they wiped out the first squad and consolidated into the other and decimated them too.(sheesh)
The closest squad of letters assaulted a fish and proceeded to render it quite abit more terrain like.
Move - Ok, about half my army is gone. The remaining fish moves backwards 7". The 3 suits move towards some trees. Drones back up alittle, to stay out af assault range.
Shooting - Due to some pretty unlucky rolling I only kill 2 pups. Drones have alittle target practice with the dread(yes I know they can't hurt him)
Assault - suits move to other side of trees, to also stay out of assualt range. Unknowingly I moved them within assault range for 2 squads. Doh!
Move - Pups and the first squad of letters move towards the suits, man those doggies move fast! (12")
Shooting - This dread couldn't hit the broadside of a planet
Assault - Man those bloodletters assault fast, 12" assualt = not good. You can use your imagination as to the fate of those three suits. I will spare you the awful details.
Well I pretty much threw in the towel right there, not much point in continuing.
Since that one went so quickly, and now I had a little insight as to what to expect, we played another round.
Same everything (we rolled for it I swear)
This one isn't turn by turn, but it could have been because it too was a short one.
His battle plan was the same. Mine changed alittle. I was now targeting the DP and not the dread! Oh, I also moved that convienently placed piece of large terrain waaaay to the side and back about 2'
On to the slaughter.
Turn one shooting revealed how ineffective missle pods are to +3/+5 saves.
Out come all the demons with nearly the same effect. I did manage to kill most of the pups and a whole squad of bloodletters while I was running for my life, screaming like a little girl. I lasted until turn four this game before I was run down and had a mudhole stomped in my @$$. Funny thing though, that dread never did a damn thing either game. I completely ignored it the second game. It doesn't fit with his type/size army, much too slow.
So kiddies, what did I learn from these (completely onesided) battles?
- This all demon army list is so fast I can't stay away from it long enough to put some serious hurt to the individual squads.
- Even with only 1 demon left in a squad it still means death to any Tau in assault range
- The way in which they deploy, means you measure their distances traveled in feet, not inches
What to do for next time you ask?
- Crisis suits will have fusion/plasma (to negate armor saves) and deepstrike as close to the DP as possible and try to kill it in turn 2 if I get to go first. Kind of an all or nothing strategy I know.
I do have a question someone could help me with. If I tie up the DP with a sacrifical squad of kroot, can he still deploy/summon demons when locked in HTH? I would go so far as to infiltrate stealth suits within assault range to try to get him to attack them in turn one and maybe stay in HTH until turn two. In which time I might get my Helios team within range.
Anyone have any advise or see any glaring rule bending?
Thanks for listening, I realize it'a alittle long winded
Last edited by Otsego; June 10th, 2005 at 17:40. Reason: change title
how did he manage to have no marines? I'm pretty sure one squad of marines is required...
Apathy is the greatest enemy of all.
number 1 = I may sound like an @$$ (to steal a word ) but play Daemonhunters. I play Tau and Daemonhunters so we know where that comes from haha. ignore this, sorry.
number 2 = Hammerheads! or actually, I heard nothing about railgun fire at all! HEY!! I think theres a tau army without a single rail gun in it!! Heh, if that doesnt drive the point home, let me put it this way, we have almost no unit choices, kroot offically suck as anything beyond meath shields and drones are if possible worse than kroot in many respects. I used to run a fish of death strategy and its a beaut I know, but a 100 points per devil fish upgraded? No way!
My suggestion is either get atleast 3 broadsides in that list (i prefer 2 units of 2 each or sometimes 3 units of 1 each just to spread em out ) or hammerheads, infact id just go with the hammerheads. My army for tau has 3 hammerheads in it: 2 railheads and an ion head. Imagine a str6 ap4 large blast template that doesnt scatter...now imagine 2 of them a round with 6" movement if you have multi tracker upgrade! my rail heads cost 180 each and thats cos i throw every upgrade on em imaginable.
Look you my laddie! Tau tech is the way to go! Tau mech armies may not be your thing, and you dont really have to use them, but realise that in an escalation mission, all our units except those with transports or hammerheads count as infantry and deploy immediately! Broadsides are the scariest infantry common unit ive ever seen i think. tl railguns you say? death incarnate you say??
Altho I have to be honest, those units draw fire like theres no tommorrow. The best thing about them being infantry is that you can make a broadside covered by a sqad of firewarriors. Litterally stand your firewarriors infront of the broadside (30" range is HUGE, and everyone wants to get to your braodside anyways, trust me) and nobody can shoot your broadside! Check in the rule book (i cant remember where) but you can litterally cover other infantry units with other infantry units (I use firearriors because of their fantastic range, and that they arent really meat shields so much as fire suppourt this way!)
Conclusion: Ignore me if you wish to have a specific theme, but other than fluff or personal preferance (both of wich override this entire post) you really need rail guns. DP would get his 5+ invulnerable agasint them sure, but hed fail more often than not. 13 front armour vs 10+d6 with ap1 vs vehicle armour rules means you need a 3+ to PENETRATE, none of this glancing non-sense here I say! You could have easyly taken out the dread and then the DP (counts as monsterous im sure) that way. as for daemon hounds and the rest, I use ion cannon with 2 burst cannons as well as a squad of stealth to remove things with sheer wheight of dice, same thing with fire warriors or a squad of mobile kroot, 20 carnis can kill even terminators if you keep moving right! And for entertainment and driving home the point of : I AM TAU, HEAR ME SHOOT, much, very very much: use the large blast template that the railheads use, railguns on hammerheads get that lovely submunition shot option that doesnt scatter and uses the large blast template. Soo much fun to watch enemies start to focus on the tanks and ignore the actual frail things. But then, thats what it is to play tau. Distraction and shooting while hes distracted. Your tanks can move 12" a round, and can only be hit on a 6 in close combat regardless of WS, use it!
Sorry for repeating myself so very often, I was surprised by the lack of rail gun goodness.
As always, remember you fight for the greater good commander!
Rude:"...". Turk of Legend,1/2 of the deadly duo Reno and Rude.
I did not have any Hammerheads at the time or I would of fielded one. However, I know own two and in the process of building and painting them. Thanks for the suggestions. I figure Ill field one HH at 1000pts, two at 1500pts, and then add two broadsides to make a 2000pt list. I plan on screening the broadsides with a squad of gun drones from long range fire and to slowdown deepstrikers. We'll see if that strategy works.
I'll ask about the no marines thing too, I also thought he had to take squad of marines just like the Tau have to have one squad of firewarriors
Your opponent cheated here (or may have misread the rules). Reserve rolls are made at the very start of the turn. And any summoned daemons are placed on the table BEFORE movement. He moved his prince 12 inches, summoned daemons who then moved and assaulted. He should have summoned his daemons, then moved them and the prince... probably leaving the daemons outside charging distance.DP makes an about face and flies 12" back to my left. Hmmm. I can see him now for the first time. He rolls and gets all 3 of his reserve units to come in.(great) And procedes to summon 2 squads of bloodletters and one squad of demon puppy thingies. One squad of bloodletters and the pups scatter right at me some 6-8" or so,(ack) the other bloods stay were they deployed. Now, much to my suprise, all 3 new squads get to move! Ack! which means the pups are now in assault range of my recently disembarked FWs!
Not any more. Units wanting to shoot at your broadsides will just have to make a leadership test in order to do so. Sure it can fail, but don't count on it. Lots of armies have ld 8-10 and they only occasionally fail.The best thing about them being infantry is that you can make a broadside covered by a sqad of firewarriors. Litterally stand your firewarriors infront of the broadside (30" range is HUGE, and everyone wants to get to your braodside anyways, trust me) and nobody can shoot your broadside! Check in the rule book (i cant remember where) but you can litterally cover other infantry units with other infantry units (I use firearriors because of their fantastic range, and that they arent really meat shields so much as fire suppourt this way!)
Awesome battle report! *reps
It made me laugh. Very funny style, good sense of humour.
I'm not sure what I would have done instead. Looks like you've learned good lessons though, keep playing and you'll learn what to do.
Kroot don't suck. Check out my battle report, they were awesome! (Best unit in the army).
I wonder how he managed to deploy the DP and Dreadnought in the first turn. You said you had maxed special rules, so you should have escalation so no tanks, monstrous creatures and so on, only infantry may deploy.
And yes, ha have ta have at least one marine unit because what I remenber, a unit or character can only summon a single unit per turn so a good sugestion would to torget Icon bearers to deny him summoning
I realize this was posted two months ago, but there were comments posted very recently, so I'll risk commenting.
Chaos marine armies don't have to have chaos marines in them, except the chaos lord or lieutenant, who's technically a marine even if now a freaky death machine.
Bloodletters are troops, and I assure you his list was legal in that respect (chaos marines are not 1+ like fire warriors), but there's no rule that says only one daemon squad may be summoned per icon per turn. I think this strategy is called the "daemon bomb," where one fast guy with an icon runs into the enemy army and explodes in daemons.
I think the rail guns will help, but getting up in his face quickly with the crisis suits should have been pretty effective, too. A chaos lord only has four wounds max, right? So two rounds with three or four crisis suits should be pretty hairy for him. Maybe you just got unlucky.
Yeah, or explodes from a rail gun shot :lol:Originally Posted by descriiYeah well. If your suits go up close and personal with a tooled up daemon prince they better make sure to take him down in one round. Otherwise he is gonna rape them in cc. Other than that, you are absolutely right. The way to go against a daemon bomb army is to throw everything at the guy(s) with the icon. If they die before the daemons start coming you have just about won the game.Originally Posted by descrii