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I'm sure you all know about soulstorm but if you don't here is the lowdown:
You, the player, takes control of one race (for this example you I'll use Space Marines).
The space marines have to battle across each territory and attack the bases of the other races. After taking the final base of the last opponent, you win.
It is a turn based game with RTS thrown in and in your turn you move and attack a territory if there is one within your area. In the AI turn they can attack your area and you defend it.
Now, in the game the player has only one territory to begin with, his base, whilst the other AI races each have a number of others meaning you always have someone to fight when you land in a new territory.
So, in real 40k games, how could this be translated?
If you know soulstorm, or even dark crusade, how would you go about playing a 'real life' 40k campaign using that basis?
The idea that each player has a base is simple, but in the PC game the player only has one base whilst the AI controls the rest. There are no neutral territories.
In real life there would be no AI, so how do you fight over neutral territories? How do you decide which race fights which?
As an example imagine on one planet you have Eldar and Necrons - the Eldar start on one side in sector one, the necrons on the other in sector seven, and in between are six territories.
Each player can only move once per turn, so the Eldar move from sector one to sector two. Now what? There is no one to fight, so it's boring as hell.
How can I fill that gap?
I was thinking of possibly making each planet a permanent home for certain invaders who always fight during neutral games.
So the necrons are waking up on planet one - all neutral games on that planet must be fought against necrons.
ON planet two its Ork held, so all neutral games are vs orks.
On planet three its tyranids, on four its Imperial guard etc etc
Semi workable maybe, but then how does the Necron/Nid/Ork/Whetever player do when its his turn and moves his army into a neutral zone? Does he fight himself? Does he fight another race that is on that planet who are (fluff) perhaps scouting that region? If so, which race if there are more than one?
Does anyone know what I mean? Its all become a bit garbled...
I can't say I've seen it all but I live for the things that keep me hollow.
Not sure if i totally get what you mean but ill try.
In DOW The AI start with 3 territories, so why doesn't everyone start with a number of territories and have no neutral territories.
I hope i've got what your talking about, if not just ignore me.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
Have you considered having the players take terrain pieces on your map [planetary or system based] until there are simply no neutral places left and the players are free to grind against each other from the go? It alway's feels like a standard of most campaigns that I run, as everyone wants to fight one another and expand their territories from the go as opposed to facing a dozen 'npc' races or empty area's before they meet another player.
Simply divide all territories between the different players at the start. Or allow whoever enters neutral territory first to claim it by ending their turn in it
The only problem, is that if you are moving within your own territory there is no battles to fight that round, and if 3 different players are attacking you, you have to play 3 battles in 1 round.
Arch Overfiend & Grand Despot
I currently play:
Doom Eagle Space Marines
Hive Fleet Omega Tyranids
Goff Ork Boyz(dead)
Tau of O'me
Inquisitorial Xeno Hunters
and my attempted foray into fantasy
'Dark Angel Green' Dark Elves in need of fluff
I've done something similar to what you plan to do. Simply randomly decide what army will be fought in the neutral territory (ahead of time or not, it doesn't matter)
In your example you had Eldar on one end of the planet, Necrons on the other. Any time a player attacks a neutral territory, roll a die for a random enemy that another player plays for/ have a player who only plays as neutral armies.
I have the perfect number of armies to do this, so I always go:
2. Dark Eldar
3. Space Marines
5. Chaos Daemons
There really isnt an issue if the same armies fight, but if it bothers you, you can always reroll.
sorry double post
Last edited by darkspawn327; January 28th, 2009 at 20:01.
I'm planning on doing something like this, i printed out a big screenie of the campaign map in the game to use on a noteboard, gonna use coloured pins to keep track of what's what.
Since i only have 3 players including myself im gonna end up with some empty spaces.
(5-6 armies between us though)
This has been written kinda like "tale of four gamers" but more fun Imo, and is designed to take a while to complete with something to do for all the players everytime we meet up.
(and to get a good number of games in every meet)
here's how i'm planning for it to start:
The goal is to destroy the other races' home-lot without losing your own.
1: each player takes turns picking one lot on the map, all lots must be adjacent to at least 1 lot previously owned. The first lot picked is the base and the Lynchpin of the campaign
2: each player gets to place between 4-6 lots, rolled for at the start by a d3 +3 .
3: Each player must start a certain amount of space from eachother (different continents or planets)
4: After everyone has chosen their lots they start to assign forces to those lots.
First lot they chose is their home and must always be defended by an army of 1500 points (or more)
5: Each player gets a pool of 6000 points to distribute (in addition to their home army) as they wish between the lots. (max 1000, min. 400)
6: An armylist for each lot must be made, and may never change unless another rule or effect casues it to change.
7: the minimum points allowed in a lot that a player wishes to keep controlling is 400, below that and the player cannot control it.
(otherwise local thugs will just take it from your meagre grasp)
Lots with resources:
It would be a very unbalanced campaign if we would use the Dawnofwar bonuses in a TT-campaign, so i opted for this instead:
each lot with a bonus (there are enough to go around for everyone) gives the controlling player the ability to do one of 3 things at the beginning of their campaing-turn:
1: reinforce one lot with max 200 points of units ( only by transfering them from an adjacent lot)
2: ressurrect one unit of max 200 points that has previously been lost.
3: change the equipment of the units in one lot. (units must stay the same though)
A player may only capture lots adjacent to his own.
The blank spaces are controlled by roving bandits, wild animals and mean peasants.
Blanks never attack anyone, theyre just there for some quick, enjoyable filler games.
each time a player wishes to take a lot that is empty, he has to fight the inhabitants for it by playing a combat patrol against a random opponent. The max army size is 500 points to each side for these fights.
If he wins, The player takes the lot and gets sent enough supplies and troops to establish a forward base. (A new list is written for that lot still using the pool of points from earlier)
However, since these are only forward bases with not much in the way of permanent fortifications and supplies, the max size to hold a "blank" lot is 750 points.
The army that captured the lot must now either merge with the army that is holding the lot, or move on in the next turn.
If a lot that is occupied by two armies (like the above scenario) gets attacked, the defender only gets to use one of them.
Each player makes one move/attack per campaign-turn.
Players may move 2 lots per turn if the lots are owned by that player. (i.e you may move reinforcements to the front a bit faster through friendly lands)
Handling losses and defeat:
Since it would eventually grind to a standstill if everything just stood up again after getting shot down in a previous engagement, im doing this:
For blank lots:
If a player attacks an empty lot and fails, they must immediately retreat and may try again next turn or pick a new target next turn.
If an attacking army gets enough units killed to put it below the minimum(400), they cannot
claim a lot, but may stay put to see if they can get some reinforcements next turn.
If another player attacks a lot with such a weak defending force, the attacker wins by default and the defender moves his force away to the nearest friendly adjacent lot.
(so it's pretty important to not throw units away when capping lots)
For player vs player:
Attacking the others is what it's all about, so im throwing in something special:
Each victory against another player gains you one roll on the veteran skill chart (brb)(for one unit only!) for that particular attacking force.
This bonused unit cannot be transferred from that list in any way on it's own, if a player wishes that bonused unit to merge with another force, then the whole force it is in has to do so.
If a unit with bonuses gets destroyed, the bonus is gone, and must be earned again with a new unit.(resurrecting them wont bring it back either)
Max 4 bonuses total per force, surplus bonuses means you may remove an old one and reroll it if you wish (has to be on the same squad).
If you should plow through another players defenses so deeply as to be able to attack his home, then use the following:
the force that did the attacking will immediately be bolstered by your home to match the opponent in points (1500 or more, pick a suitably epic number )
When doing this you have to use the original attacking force (and any bonuses they might have) and then expand that list up to the determined points-limit. Regular FoC applies.
If you can, it's allowed to merge in forces from adjacent lots to take advantage of any bonuses they might have. (still max 4 though)
Although going all-in like this might put you in a bad situation if you lose, however, should you risk it, the veteran bonuses will nudge the odds in your favour.
If a home-lot is lost, that player loses the campaign, and all lots held by him/her become blanks.
Well, that all really, should work ok, with some on-the-fly mods when needed.
and the best part is that you really don't need much of an army to do it, as most battles will be somewhere between 400-1500 points, with a bigger finish..
But that shouldnt be a problem, since youve had time to finish your army by then, hmm?
If you see any fatal flaws, please let me know
Sorry for the massive post.
Thanks for all the ideas.
What about this -
Three planets in an Imperial System.
Planet one is still Imperial Controlled, planet two has been overrun by Orks and planet three has been taken by Chaos.
All territories on those planets are considered held by their respective armies.
The Imperial Guard are now under attack from the tyranids - so the Tyranids begin with one territory and have to take the IG HQ to claim the planet, afterwhich they can move on to the next. If the IG take the Nid HQ then they can leave to help either the marines or the Inquisition (see below)
The Space Marines have been called in to take care of the Orks. The orks intend to salvage equipment from the marine HQ before they can leave after crashing their ship, the marines need to destroy the ork HQ before they will leave to help either imperial forces.
The Inquisition know of a daemon/weapon/artefact/nasty thing on planet three that Chaos are looking for.
Chaos won't leave until they find it (in the Inquisition HQ) and the Inquisition won't leave until they have driven chaos off.
What with the presence of the daemon/nasty thing whatever the Inquisitor begins to turn and orders the IG to kill the marines, the marines don't like that so kill them back then realise its the Inquisitors fault and kill him as well, so in the end there can be only one.
The only problem I have with that is that on one planet, until a race has been wiped out, it will just be ten battles or so between the same two players and races but to combat that you could have more lesser armies who can come and go as they please.
For example, on the Orks vs Marines world, the ork hating Commander Farsight of the tau joins the barney, but can leave at any time and move to another world if he so wishes. He would have a HQ, of course, because there must be a chance he can be destroyed.
The Chaos Marines summon a load of Daemons, the Eldar start attacking both IG and Nids, the Dark Eldar try to kidnap the Inquisitor, the Necrons begin to rise from the planet etc etc
So, in effect, the line up would be
Planet One: Imperial Guard vs Tyranids vs X
Planet Two: Orks vs Marines vs X
Planet Three: Chaos vs Inquisition vs X
The named races cannot leave until their opposite is defeated, whereas X could be any race that has a HQ but can leave at any time.
The first names (IG, Orks and Chaos) each have one HQ but also control every other territory on the planet apart from one which is held by their opponent. If X wish to fight on that planet they must attack a territory and if they win that territory becomes their HQ.
Just a few more thoughts....?
I can't say I've seen it all but I live for the things that keep me hollow.
I've written a 17 page rule set for exactly this type of thing. It was based on using the Mighty Empires campaign play for Warhammer and then re-jigged to be more playable in the 40K universe.
If you let me know you email address I'll send it to you and you are free to use it, or customise any of the ideas. I'd be grateful for the feedback because it was only played through once.
The idea was that the players started off with 3 BattleForces of 2000 pts, but each game was played using a list of 1000pts. Whatever was killed was subtracted from the total until you could no longer field a 1000pt list - We felt this was better than having a 1000pt list go up against a 500pt list as this battle would be a foregone conclusion.
Anyway, let me know if you are interested in the full rules.
Check out my Blog for my Biel-Tan Apocalypse progress