VW Mini: Round 2, Battle 11; Night Lords vs Blood Angels - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Senior Member Terzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    313
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    10 (x1)

    VW Mini: Round 2, Battle 11; Night Lords vs Blood Angels

    Please give a reason for your votes and Bold them. Fluff votes may be given, in which case they'll determine the winner of a draw.
    Mission: Cleanse


    Night Lords

    Headquarters - 233 points
    Chaos Leiutenant:Joins a Chaos Marines squad
    Darkblade; Bolt Pistol; Frags; Infiltrate; Sorcerer; Wind of Chaos

    Chaos Leiutenant:Joins a Chaos Marines squad
    Armed with Power Weapon; Bolt Pistol; Infiltrate; Daemonic Strength; Sorcerer; Wind of Chaos


    Troops - 312 points
    Chaos Marine Squad - Six (6) marines
    All have Stealth Adept
    All have Infiltrate
    Three (3) armed with Bolt Pistol; CCW
    Two (2) armed with Meltaguns
    Aspiring Champion; Powerfist; Bolt Pistol


    Chaos Marine Squad - Six (6) marines
    All have Stealth Adept
    All have Infiltrate
    Three (3) armed with Bolt Pistol; CCW
    Two (2) armed with Meltaguns
    Aspiring Champion; Powerfist; Bolt Pistol

    Elites - 205 points
    Chosen - Seven (7) marines
    All have Stealth Adept
    All have Infiltrate
    Five (5) armed with Bolt Pistol; CCW
    One (1) armed with Flamer
    Aspiring Champion; Powerfist; Bolt Pistol; Sorcerer; Wind of Chaos


    Notes:
    Fairly straight forward. Infiltrate close, and pulverize the enemy in Close Combat. Stealth Adept enhances the cover saves of my units, allowing them to survive shooting matches. Meltaguns deal with any armour and MCs that might happen to show up. If expecting Monstrous Creatures (such as Greater Daemons) then the squads will team up to take it down through shooting as best as possible, finishing it off with Powerfist attacks.

    The Lts. join the Troops choices to add a bit of punch to them. If necessary, they can split off to Wind of Chaos a different unit that the one the Troops will engage.

    Wind of Chaos: Cover Saves? What Cover Saves? Armour Saves? What Armour Saves? Enemies get none of those.

    Also, it is worth pointing out that each unit is/has a sorcerer, which allows them to detect any ambushes that await them.


    Blood Angels

    Headquarters - 216 points
    Reclusiarch: Leads Death Company
    Bolt Pistol; Jump Pack

    Death Company
    All have Jump Packs

    Elites - 100 points
    Furioso Dreadnought
    Extra Armour

    Troops - 429 points
    Blood Angels Scout Squad - Ten (10) marines
    All have Frag Grenades
    Nine (9) with Bolt Pistol; CCW
    Sergeant; Bolt Pistol; Powerfist

    Blood Angels Scout Squad - Nine (9) marines
    All have Frag Grenades
    Eight [8] with Bolt Pistol; CCW
    Sergeant; Bolt Pistol; Powerfist

    Space marine Scout Squad - Six (6) marines
    Four (4) armed with Bolters
    One (1) armed with Missile Launcher
    Sergeant; Combi-melta


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Age
    30
    Posts
    3,861
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    185 (x8)

    Oh man, death company heaven.

    Death company will be 6 or 7 strong.

    Most units will never be hit with the flamer, since they can move and charge 12 inches, so there is absolutly no reason for them to allow the chaos player a turn of shooting with them, simply holding there ground, and waiting for the chaos player to move withen 12 inches, then launching charges.

    So, when 10 scouts charge, they get 27 normal attacks, and 4:

    27 attacks, 14 hits, 9 wounds, 3 dead.

    Choas HQ attacking back(with dark blade): 5 attacks, 3 hits, 3 dead.

    4 normal choas attacks: 2 hits, 1 wound, 0 or 1 dead. Since hes not a marine, dead.

    Powerfist from scouts attacks Chaos HQ: 4 attacks, 2 hits, 2 wounds, instant death.

    Chaos powerfist: 3 attacks 2 hits, more dead.

    Scouts lose 5, chaos loses 3+3 from HQ. Choas loses combat. But has LD 10 and holds.

    Now the other squad, 9 scouts + dreadnought, charing the other choas space marine squad:

    24 attacks: 12 hits, 8 wounds, 3 dead.

    Choas dude: 5 attacks, 3 hits, 2 dead.

    Furious dreadnought, attacking HQ: 4 attacks, 2 hits, 2 wounds, instant death.

    4 normal attacks from chaos guys: 2 hits, 1 wound, 1 dead.

    4 scout powerfist attacks, 2 hits, 2 dead.

    Chaos powerfist attacks, 2 hits, 2 dead.

    Chaos loses HQ + 5 marines, scouts lose 5 models. Scouts win, choas outnumbered 14 to 1.

    Falls back, cannot regroup, only armed with bolt pistol, hes as good as dead.

    Now the death company against the choosen.

    Chaplain: 5 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds, 3 dead.

    Death company: (with 6 men ) 24 attacks, 18 hits, 12 wounds, 4 dead,

    Thats 7 dead, before they can strike.

    The chaos player doesnt have anything else, default win, for blood angles.

  4. #3
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    5,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    708 (x8)

    Forged, I have some issues with your math -

    Quote Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar
    Most units will never be hit with the flamer, since they can move and charge 12 inches, so there is absolutly no reason for them to allow the chaos player a turn of shooting with them, simply holding there ground, and waiting for the chaos player to move withen 12 inches, then launching charges.
    Remember that the flame template is roughly 8 inches, so the effective range of any template weapon is 14 inches. So it's more likely that the scouts will take a hit of Wind of Chaos, but the Death Company will easily avoid it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar
    So, when 10 scouts charge, they get 27 normal attacks, and 4:

    27 attacks, 14 hits, 9 wounds, 3 dead.

    4 normal choas attacks: 2 hits, 1 wound, 0 or 1 dead. Since hes not a marine, dead.
    Here, you've already counted that the three marines are gone. That's not likely, since -
    A) They have the same initiative, so they'll all strike at the same time, or -

    They're in cover, and since Scouts have frags, they again strike at the same time.

    And remember that each Marine has BP/CCW (with exception of special weapons), so that's eight attacks back, not four.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar
    Powerfist from scouts attacks Chaos HQ: 4 attacks, 2 hits, 2 wounds, instant death.
    It's quite likely that if the Chaos HQ killed three that he has cleared his kill zone and left nothing in B2B contact to instant kill him. So that changes who wins the combat significantly.

    The other thing is that if the Dread moves into Charge range, then it has to absorb two Meltagun shots in return before it can charge.

    I'm still undecided as to who'll win, but I think you've unfairly represent one side of the fight.

    Though, I think the fluff vote should go to the Night Lords. It doesn't seem likely to me that the Blood Angels would use a strike force of Death Company and a revered Furioso Dread, yet only accompanied by lowly Scouts. If they were Tac squads, I could definetly see it, but Scouts?
    Last edited by Caluin; March 10th, 2006 at 02:41.


  5. #4
    Member Roulex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Eastern University
    Age
    30
    Posts
    80
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    6 (x1)

    Ooh,close match... I'm not sure yet which would win....
    5th? Cool. WotLK? Also cool.

  6. #5
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    5,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    708 (x8)

    Since this is such a close match, I gave myself a few hours to think about it. I was originally going to give the match to the Blood Angels, due to Forge's math, but then I remembered the mission. It's the mission that will win the Night Lords the match.
    Here's why -

    The Blood Angels have no flexibility. Every model must deploy in their deployment zone. The Night Lords then will infiltrate, and they'll infiltrate in the middle of the board. This way, they can contest the table quarter the Blood Angels own and still be in one turns movement of the other three. This alone forces the Blood Angels to come to the Night Lords, or else split their forces to capture the table quarters.

    With that in mind, the Night Lords can simply wait for the Blood Angels to come to them. The only unit that can avoid a WoC and Meltagun/Charge combination is the Death Company - but they're going to be taking Dangerous Terrain tests. If they're going to be using their Jump Packs through the Jungle, then they're damn well going to pay for it. Feel No Pain doesn't help them either, as the Dangerous Terrain test allows no saves of any kind.

    Now, a Night Lords unit charging Scouts -

    WoC to start. Say hits four models, two wounds/kills. Meltaguns then fire, say one death.

    Scouts strike first, due to cover. Six alive, two attacks a piece.

    6*(1/2)*(1/2)*(1/3) = .5 kills. Half a kill. Round it up, for ease.

    Marines strike now. HQ has five attacks, but will probably kill three, as stated earlier. Marines have 10 attacks (lost one marine).

    10*(1/2)*(1/2)*(1/2) = 1.25 kills. So all together, four kills.

    Powerfists now strike, each scoring two (For ease of the math). That leaves three marines + HQ in the Chaos squad, and one Scout left. Outnumbered 5 to 1, scout with leadership 9, so he'll take a leadership test at -3. It's likely he'll break and run. If he doesn't, he gets cut down by the HQ.

    All of this ofcourse assumes that no Scout goes to the Death Company, otherwise they're dead on the first round of combat.

    With the Scouts out of the picture, the Dread can be taken care of via either Powerfist attacks or Meltaguns. Whatever is left will team up with the Chosen to take out the Death Company, as the two Lts. can easily carve through them like butter. The Chaplain is mean, but only has two wounds, compared to the four between the Lts.

    If it weren't for the mission, then the Blood Angels probably would have won. However, the mission is everything, and the Infiltration of the Night Lords is what will pull them through.

    Night Lords win, though barely.
    Last edited by Caluin; March 9th, 2006 at 06:56.


  7. #6
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    SW England
    Age
    48
    Posts
    7,745
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    411 (x8)

    Close but Blood angels win the superiority of their HQ, DC getting abck up plus slightly better CC ability in the troop area sells me.
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    32
    Posts
    188
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    5 (x1)

    I think I'm with Caluin, the mission will give the Night Lords enough of an advantage (with all the cover), to beat down the Blood Angels.

    Night Lords will win.

  9. #8
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Age
    30
    Posts
    3,861
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    185 (x8)

    [QUOTE=Caluin]Forged, I have some issues with your math -

    Remember that the flame template is roughly 8 inches, so the effective range of any template weapon is 14 inches. So it's more likely that the scouts will take a hit of Wind of Chaos, but the Death Company will easily avoid it.

    [/QUOTE

    Please read the flamer tactical in the space marine section, top of the page, under tacticals tread.

    The scouts out shoot the choas marines currently, (a few of them have bolters, and a ML)

    Thus, they have no reason to match forward, instead they would probably hold ground, and force the choas marines to advance at the scouts. Who should be 18 inches away, via infiltrate

    Thus when the chaos players moves withen 12 inches, (yes he gets some bolt pistol shots, that i didnt account for, but i also didnt account for the bolter scouts shooting) Now the chaos player is 12 inches away from the scouts, the scouts then move up 12 inches and charge, thus the use of flamers is denied.

    When the scouts charge, they will counting on the chaos lord making attacks, so, they will put the sgt in base to base with the HQ, and one scout conacting both the HQ and an enemy models, with men packed in very tightly around that, that leaves ample body guards for the powerfist to attack. Thats why invunerable saves are very important, its odd that the chaos player would not use any invunerable save at all.

    Here, you've already counted that the three marines are gone. That's not likely, since -
    A) They have the same initiative, so they'll all strike at the same time, or -

    They're in cover, and since Scouts have frags, they again strike at the same time.
    Since these are blood angles, all models have furious charge, thus they strike before all the choas marines as they charge, and at the same time with any HQs. This includes dreadnoughts, who can extreamily easily thrash an HQ. The scouts will probably infiltrate to an open postion on the map, forcing the chaos player into a clearing, and allowing them to charge uninterupted.

    And remember that each Marine has BP/CCW (with exception of special weapons), so that's eight attacks back, not four.
    It is 4 attacks back before only 2 marines survive the scout attacks.

    Both armies can infiltrate, so essentually, they are deploying 18 inches away from eachother, this only helps my theory of scout domination.

    Anyway, if things are going badly, the death company will take over. Say, if the scouts have a bad move, and dont look like they can charge, the death company will slaughter any squad it assaults.

    The chaplain can kill any of the HQs before they can strike, and while the rest of the death company murders any challengers, the death company alone can win this whole fight:

    Heres a refresher about how powerful a death company is (this time ive buffed the death company and the made the scouts supporting units:

    6 Bolt pistol shots + chaplains pistol: 5 hits, 2.5, generally at .5 i round up, except for very important things such as Death company. So 3 wounds, 1 dead.

    On the charge, since they are the fastest models on the table:

    Chaplain, 5 attacks: 4 hits AGAINST WS 5: Chaplain has 6 Initiave, 5 Strength.
    (break down: 5 * .75 (rerollable 4 plus) = 3.75, these are dice hence roll up: 4)

    4 hits, on 5 strenth against 4 toughness, is 3+ to wound: 4 * .667 = 2.668 on dice = 3 wounds.

    Hence Dead HQ before he can strike.

    Now, a 6 man death company ( it will average 6 or 7)

    5 DC get 20 attacks, at 5I and 5S

    20 * .75 (chaplains rerolls) = 15 hits, 10 wounds, 3 dead.

    +1 Inducted scout veteran sgt: powerweapon: 4 attacks, 3 hits, 2 wounds, 2 dead.

    Total of 3 wounds on HQ + 6 wounds to a squad. Thus, the death company can kill a squad, and not lose a single man.




    Blood angles win
    Last edited by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar; March 10th, 2006 at 05:04.

  10. #9
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    5,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    708 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar
    Please read the flamer tactical in the space marine section, top of the page, under tacticals tread.
    Taken directly from that tactica, which I have read, thank you very much -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactica
    Consider: 6” move + 8” template = 14”. Only the last 4” of witch are of any use. Basically to use the flamer properly on models that move 6” you need to be within 10” at the beginning of your turn.
    So in order to get into charge range, they'll have to eat a WoC. There's no avoiding it. Like I said - the Death Company can avoid it, but they'll have to deal with jumping through Dangerous Terrain to do so, which can claim a number of lives as is.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar
    The scouts out shoot the choas marines currently, (a few of them have bolters, and a ML)
    All of which mean squat. With the large amount of blocking terrain, it's unlikely either of those will ever get a chance to do anything worthwhile.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar
    Since these are blood angles, all models have furious charge, thus they strike before all the choas marines as they charge, and at the same time with any HQs. This includes dreadnoughts, who can extreamily easily thrash an HQ. The scouts will probably infiltrate to an open postion on the map, forcing the chaos player into a clearing, and allowing them to charge uninterupted.
    You're right - I had forgotten about the Furious Charge. But it'd be completely asinine to assume that there is no place for the Night Lords player to take cover. You also assume that the Scouts infiltrate before the Night Lords do. They can just as easily infiltrate a CSM squad and force the Scouts back.

    I find the fact that you gloss over Cover so readily quite disheartening. You honestly believe that not a single unit will have any benefit of cover, especially since the list looks to be designed around it?

    However, I'm not so sure about the Night Lords chance anymore. I'll have to rethink my position about it.
    Last edited by Caluin; March 10th, 2006 at 03:56.


  11. #10
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Age
    30
    Posts
    3,861
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    185 (x8)

    Well, the scouts have move through cover, allowing them to move more trustedly then any other unit, while the DC can jump between trees and other such things.

    The scouts will infiltrate, or deploy next to eachother, probably both armies will infiltrate, and simply place there units in a line, since they will have to take turns deploying infiltrators, except for the death company.

    The death company will deploy in an open peace area of the field, for which there is 30%, thats basically 1 third, so they should be able to find an area with realativly little cover. That they can see around, forcing units to stay 18" back when deploying, then both armies will set up 18 inches away from eachother.

    Now, who goes first? doesnt matter in this mission for the blood angles:

    Either they get a free turn of shooting ( if they can see anything ) with there scouts. Or they simply organise into a fromation that they like, such as, lineing all there units up, so that they will be roughly even with the chaos forces:

    Say a chaos center chaos squad is 3 inches infront of the left most chaos squad, the blood angles would addjust there lines, so that, after the the choas players next movement phase, the dreadnought, and 2 charging scout squads can charge. He would do this by moving his center squad back 3 inches, so as to stay roughly 12 inches away from all the choas units.

    So to recap, because i cant draw this:

    Blood angles first turn: addjusts lines, but stays 18 inches away from Chaos player, takes shots at chaos player, probably does nothing.

    Choas turn, moves up 6"

    Gap between blood angles and chaos is 12" thus no flamers can shoot. pistols in range, but wont have that great of an effective, maybe 2 or 3 scouts down(this assumes they can see over 6" meaning, no or little forest between them.

    Blood angles turn 2, they now charge with everything except the bolter scouts, the bolter scouts move up and fire, they should be able to rapid fire.

    Now, the death company dreadnought and 2 scouts squads are in CC, negating the flamers.

    If the scout strike at the same time, they will experance more casaulties, but will still kill the same number, which is still bad for the chaos player.

    The death company should be able to fly over/around any cover that will stop them from assaulting.

    If the turn looks bad, say all the units are in cover, the blood angles would simply move back for this turn, and launch assaults when the choas player is in the open.

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts