40K VWMkIV - Round #3 - Battle #33 - Dark Angels versus Space Marines - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    40K VWMkIV - Round #3 - Battle #33 - Dark Angels versus Space Marines

    Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner. All missions have the Infiltration, Deep Strike, and Victory Points special rules.

    Mission Type - Seek and Destroy


    Dark Angels

    HQ: 461
    Elites: 0
    Troops: 760
    Fast Attack: 255
    Heavy Support: 370


    Epistolary Librarian:
    Force Weapon; Bolt Pistol; Terminator Honours; Familiar; Frag Grenades; Iron Halo; Stubborn; Furious Charge; Fear of The Darkness; Veil of Time

    9x Command Squad Marines:
    Frag Grenades; Furious Charge
    6x Bolt Pistols and Chainswords; 1x Melta Gun;
    Company Champion with Power weapon, Bolt Pistol and Combat Shield
    Veteran Sergeant with Powerfist and Bolt Pistol
    Drop Pod

    10x Tactical Squad Marines:
    8x Bolters; 1x Meltagun
    Veteran Sergeant with Powerfist and Bolt Pistol
    Drop pod

    5x Tactical Squad Marines:
    4x Bolters; 1x Lascannon

    5x Tactical Squad Marines:
    4x Bolters; 1x Lascannon

    6x Tactical Squad Marines:
    4x Bolters; 1x Plasma Cannon; 1x Plasma Gun

    6x Tactical Squad Marines:
    4x Bolters; 1x Plasma Cannon; 1x Plasma Gun

    6x Tactical Squad Marines:
    4x Bolters; 1x Plasma Cannon; 1x Plasma Gun

    1x Ravenwing Land Speeder Tornado
    Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolter

    1x Ravenwing Land Speeder Tornado
    Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolter

    1x Ravenwing Land Speeder Tornado
    Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolter

    7x Devastator Marines:
    3x Bolters; 4x Missile Launchers

    7x Devastator Marines:
    3x Bolters; 4x Missile Launchers


    Tactics:
    (feel free to use this list as if you are playing with it and use your own tactics)

    Librarian is a character killer. He can take down the toughest of cc opponents on the charge. He also attempts to take objectives landing near it or in dire circumstances on it. The Tactical squad with the drop pod supports the librarian and his squad landing in a more dangerous position (to the enemy) and drawing more fire. They rapid fire bolters at horde things and then gets stuck in cc. They also try to take objectives. The 2 tactical squads with lascannons do their best to take down tough tanks and work their way down to less important ones. The Plasma squads move up into a fire support position. They are effective both moving and stationary. The shoot the heavily armoured troops and ones that are packed together (ex: deepstrikers). The LSTs fly around like annoying little bees. They mostly fire at the same target to be more effective and shoot at things like hordes troops unless there are none. They get the Librarian out of any trouble he might be also. The Devastators take down tanks as 4 missiles can stop even armour 14 tanks for a turn or so. If something like a marine assault squad is going to assault my troops or take an objective they will fire together and maximize effectiveness. They also use frags if necessary (close order drill IG = frags).


    ------------------------------


    White Scars Raiders
    Space Marines


    Traits: Be Swift As the Wind; Have Pride In Your Colours

    HQ: 172
    Elites: 464
    Troops: 962
    Fast Attack: 240
    Heavy Support: 0


    Codicier Librarian:
    Force Weapon; Fear of the Darkness; Familiar; Space Marine Bike; Terminator Honors; Combat Shield; Close Combat Weapon; Frag Grenades

    5x Space Marine Bikers
    Furious Charge; Frag Grenades; Twin Linked Bolters; 2x Flamers
    Veteran Sergeant with Pair of Lightning Claws

    5x Space Marine Bikers
    Furious Charge; Frag Grenades; Twin Linked Bolters; 2x Flamers
    Veteran Sergeant with Pair of Lightning Claws

    6x Space Marine Bikers (including Attack Bike):
    Frag Grenades; Twin Linked Bolters; 2x Meltaguns
    Veteran Sergeant with Power Fist; Close Combat Weapon
    Attack Bike: Multi-melta

    6x Space Marine Bikers (including Attack Bike):
    Frag Grenades; Twin Linked Bolters; 2x Meltaguns
    Veteran Sergeant with Power Fist; Close Combat Weapon
    Attack Bike: Multi-melta

    5x Space Marine Bikers (including Attack Bike):
    Frag Grenades; Twin Linked Bolters; 2x Meltaguns
    Veteran Sergeant with Power Fist; Close Combat Weapon
    Attack Bike: Multi-melta

    5x Scout Bikers
    Melta Bombs; Twin Linked Bolters
    Veteran Sergeant with Power Fist; Close Combat Weapon

    Land Speeder Tornado
    Heavy Bolter; Assault Cannon

    Land Speeder Tornado
    Heavy Bolter; Assault Cannon

    Land Speeder Tornado
    Heavy Bolter; Assault Cannon


    Fluff: White Scars to the core.

    (Editor's Note - part of the following tactics rely upon the Scout Bikers getting a free 12 inch Scout move before the game starts - due to the traits chosen they can't do this and as such a few things in the tactics section can't happen.)

    Breakdown: Librarian - can move and cast FoTD on 1st turn, devastating low LD armies / shooty armies that like to sit on the edge of the board.
    Scouts - WILL pop most expensive enemy vehicle 1st turn. If there are no vehicles, they tie up shootiest enemy troop unit with 1st turn charge.
    3x multi-melta squads - at T5, with 6 bikes, large enough to absorb some shooting, esp. during turbo-boost. With bike movement, multi-melta can often hit enemy on 1st turn. 3 melta weapons instakill power armor and always pop vehicles, even AV14. Hidden powerfists get 4 attacks on the charge.
    2x assault squads - designed to beat enemy bike squads. I5 on the charge devastates power armor. 4x I5 lightning claw attacks also rip up marines. 2x flamers will destroy mobs, gaunts, 'nids, etc.
    Speeders - 3x HB, 3x assault cannons. Perfect for anything. Can hit the enemy 1st turn.

    Versus hordes: shoot them to death. 3x AC, 3x HB, 4x flamers, and 33 twin-linked bolters will chew thru large enemy squads. FoTD can win the whole game.
    Versus skimmer armies: 6 (3 MM, 3 AC/HB) 24-inch move and fire weps will down 5-6 skimmers per turn. Even if landspeeders go down, multi-meltas are protected by red-shirts till turn 3. Scouts kill best vehicle 1st turn, w/ passengers.
    Versus vehicle armies: Again, Scouts kill best vehicle 1st turn, w/ passengers, and 3 squads w/ 3 melta weps = vehicle death.
    Versus marines: Hardest opponent, but maneuverability and 9x melta weps, which cause instant death (even v. nurgle), help a lot. I6 Librarian is a match for commanders/daemon princes. Rare stormclaws, raptors, assault marines and chaos bikes will be outnumbered in cc, since this whole army is bike-mounted.




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  3. #2
    Senior Member Librarian Augustine's Avatar
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    Dark Angels

    Here are my reasons

    1. the WHite Scars are outnumbered 32 to 62. If they make it to CC the dark Angels will swamp them. They won't make it into cc with no casualties, they will be outnumber at least 2-1. They are tougher because they are one bikes, but the dark angels will win that battle of attrition. If the bikes Tie up shooty squads when the drop pods Arrive they will be almost garunteed a charge.

    2. The firepower of the dark Angels highly out classes that of the white scars. The have a ton of high strength low AP weapons. 8 missile launchers, 3 plasma cannon, 3 plasmaguns, 2 lascannons, 3 LSTs. Also with the ton of bolters even if the bikes turbo boost they will fail a ton of armour saves because of all the shots.

  4. #3
    Dancing Peanuts? You bet! Robizzle's Avatar
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    106 (x4)

    White Scars

    Augustine makes some very good points, but is missing one very important factor - Turbo Boost. If all the Bikers Turbo Boost on their first turn, they can get into combat on turn 2, and from that there is only the command squad to stop them.

    The Land Speeders can do some damage by putting the opposing LST's down, but will ultimately just be flying around popping people while the rest of the DA army is entangled in close combat.

    And because this is a "kill them" mission, the Dark Angels have nothing to work towards other than slowly wearing down the bikers - and the bikers can do it better than they can.

  5. #4
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    185 (x8)

    2. The firepower of the dark Angels highly out classes that of the white scars. The have a ton of high strength low AP weapons. 8 missile launchers, 3 plasma cannon, 3 plasmaguns, 2 lascannons, 3 LSTs. Also with the ton of bolters even if the bikes turbo boost they will fail a ton of armour saves because of all the shots.
    You make a good point about the LSTs.

    AC: 12 shot 2 rends, 6 hits, 4 wounds, 6 total.

    HB: 9 shots, 6 hits, 3 wounds.

    The skimmers can drop 3 bikes.

    Devs: 8 rockets, 5 hits, 4 wounds.

    3x plasma 2 hits, 2 wounds.

    Thats 6 wounds, so 2 more dead.

    Call it 2 more form the bolters.

    So the DA can kill about a bike squad a turn.

    However, the white scares also have 3 LSTs.

    Who will do more damage.

    ANd this leaves 4 more bike squads to charge and such.

    While, who goes first is a big issue, the bikes can definatly charge with at least 3 strong bike squads, where they will dominate in assault.

    Ill hold my vote off for now, but im leaning white scars.

    2. The firepower of the dark Angels highly out classes that of the white scars. The have a ton of high strength low AP weapons. 8 missile launchers, 3 plasma cannon, 3 plasmaguns, 2 lascannons, 3 LSTs. Also with the ton of bolters even if the bikes turbo boost they will fail a ton of armour saves because of all the shots.
    This is quickly made up by ample powerfists and toughness 5.
    Last edited by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar; April 20th, 2006 at 02:20.

  6. #5
    Senior Member tiaxrulesall's Avatar
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    white scars

    -with T5 and a 3++ save, the bikes can survive the 1-2 turns of fire to get to CC. In CC they will massacre the small weak squads, especially as the DA CC power will arive late, and scattered.
    Procrastination- hard work often pays off over time, but laziness always pays off now.
    Indifference- it takes 43 muscles to frown, and 17 to smile, but none to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.

    -Votewar 40K III= 1st place
    -Votewar 40k mini= 2nd place
    -Votewar fantasy 2= 2nd place

  7. #6
    Senior Member Librarian Augustine's Avatar
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    30 (x2)

    OKay here is my theory

    IF Dark Angels get first turn, they will win. NO turbo boost and no protection for 1 turn of shooting. Then the next turn the whitescars will turbo-boost. Again the dark angel firepower ravages the white scars. Even if only 1-2 bike squads is taken out the dark angels will have the advantage in CC due to numbers. So if the white scars were to charge one squad and massacre they would surely die in the dark angels turn. With all the Dark angels squads about 7 inches apart, they can help the cc by charging and swamping the whitescars. When the CC power arrives (turn 3?) it will give the dark angels a big boost.

    So

    Dark Angels shooting

    2 lascannons = 2 shots - 2 hits and 2 dead landspeeders

    DA LSTs = 2 shoot 1 bike squad- 8 assault cannons 6 hit 1 rends 5 hits 3 wounds, 6 heavy bolters 4 hits 2 wounds. 5 wounds 2 dead bikes.
    Third LST destroys the whitescar one

    plasma cannons 3 shots 2 hit 2 wound 2 dead.
    Plasmaguns 4 shots 3 hit 3 wound 3 dead

    8 krak missiles 6 hit 6 wound 6 dead.

    bolters 18 shots 11 hits 4 wounds 1 dead

    So in total
    15 dead bikes. Thats half the army. IF they shoot at the 2 squads with furious charge then the whitescars won't hurt them in assault nearly as much and the numbers will hold until the drop pods arrive

  8. #7
    Senior Member tiaxrulesall's Avatar
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    -your shooting is assuming that the bikes wont be behind cover first turn, but will be sitting in the open, and that the DA's get the first turn. so if the white scars player is an unlucky idiot they will lose. otherwise, i see one round of shooting VS turboed bikes before CC.
    Procrastination- hard work often pays off over time, but laziness always pays off now.
    Indifference- it takes 43 muscles to frown, and 17 to smile, but none to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.

    -Votewar 40K III= 1st place
    -Votewar 40k mini= 2nd place
    -Votewar fantasy 2= 2nd place

  9. #8
    Senior Member JORMAGI's Avatar
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    Yes tiaxrulesall, I agree, there is no reason for the DA to be able to see the bikes on the first turn. The bikes have no reason to expose themselves, and have plenty of speed to get across the board turbo boosting from anywere they might hide.

    So for all practical purposes white scars go first.

    Full shooting against the white scars will yeild an average of 8 kills. This is making the assumption that all of the Dark angels will have Los after the turbo boost. Wich is in all honesty not a fair assumption. (Although it does balance out the chance that the landspeeders MIGHT be able to shoot bikes the first turn IF the dark angels get the first turn.)

    So 8 kills. . . That leaves 24 bikes + landspeeders tooled for close combat to kill ~62 marines with no such disposition in CC.

    I don't know, it could be done. A lot depends on who's turn the CC's end on. The dark angels are no match, but they can potentially get a bike or two each CC. Should a bike end a CC on their own turn, they can be shot painfully. My brain has been going back and forth on this fight (off and on) most of the day and I'm not sure wich way it will go.
    Votewar MKV 2nd place. . .

    Back from internet limbo, and glad to be here.

  10. #9
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    185 (x8)

    Actually, if the dark angles get first turn. Its reasonable to assumed that a few bikes could be killed, but not many, maybe 3.

    Further more, a drop pod squad would arrive turn 2 for the dark angles, hopefully being the troop squad.

    Assuming the pod lands near the bikes, between them, and the DAs lines, this could present a problem for the scars.

    (the HQ squad would also be a problem, its not a good sacrofice unit)

    Anyway, the drop pod lands, spews out a bunch of troops.

    17 bolter shots, on a bike squad, 11 hits, 4 wounds.

    Melta wounds, 5 total wounds, 1.66 dead, rounding up, 2 dead.

    Now the bike squads can ignore this squad, and charge past it, but that leaves this squad to charge them next turn.

    The question is, will that slow the bikers down enough for the DAs to win.

    If a single bike squad, down two wounds, charges this squad, its not terrably good odds for the bikes, since they will get nailed by a fist.

    If all the bikes charge the squad, its another turn of shooting, without there invunerable saves, which would be sucide.

    If this hurt unit, of 3 bikers charges the tactical sqaud, they can probably kill about 2 from shooting, then they get, 4 normal attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound, 0 dead.

    Marines strike back, 7 attacks, 4 hits, 1 wound, 0 dead.

    Now the powerfists, the bikes get 4 attacks, 2 hits, 2 wounds.

    marines get 3 attacks, one or two wounds.

    What ever the result, the bikes only killed to marines, next turn the bike squad will die.

    And that still leaves this unit to charge again.

    Plus, the librarains unit would be landing, (or the other way around, which is probably worse for the bikes, since the Librarain is way better in CC then a marine)

    Librarain: with veil of time: 5 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds. On Bikes! YouCh!

    I think im leaning back to the angles, but i hold out a bit longer to vote.
    Last edited by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar; April 20th, 2006 at 09:42.

  11. #10
    Dawn Under Heaven Triumph Of Man's Avatar
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    -170 (x0)

    Don't forget that the scout bikers only have a 4+ save, if the Dark Angels player targets them first he could rack up a few more kills.


    Karmoon
    ... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..

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