40K VWMkIV - Round #6 - Battle #54 - Black Legion versus Imperial Guard - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    40K VWMkIV - Round #6 - Battle #54 - Black Legion versus Imperial Guard

    Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner. All missions have the Infiltration, Deep Strike, and Victory Points special rules.

    Mission Type - Secure and Control



    Black Legion

    Chaos Space Marines

    HQ: 90
    Elites: 596
    Troops: 669
    Fast Attack: 295
    Heavy Support: 199


    Chaos Lieutenant:
    Mark of Nurgle; Infiltrate; Kai Gun

    8x Khornate Berserkers:
    7x Chainaxes & Bolt Pistols
    Aspiring Champion:
    Talisman of Burning Blood; Powerfist and Bolt Pistol

    8x Khornate Berserkers:
    7x Chainaxes & Bolt Pistols
    Aspiring Champion:
    Talisman of Burning Blood; Powerfist and Bolt Pistol

    3x Obliterators:
    Body Weapons

    7x Plague Marines:
    Infiltrate; True Grit; 4x Bolters & CCW; 2x Plasma Gun
    Aspiring Champion:
    Powerfist & Bolter

    7x Plague Marines:
    Infiltrate; True Grit; 4x Bolters & CCW; 2x Plasma Gun
    Aspiring Champion:
    Powerfist & Bolter

    6x Plague Marines:
    Infiltrate; True Grit; 3x Bolters & CCW; 2x Plasma Gun
    Aspiring Champion:
    Powerfist & Bolter

    5x Chaos Space Marines:
    4x Bolt Pistol & CCW; 1x Lascannon

    8x Raptors:
    Daemonic Flight; Daemonic Visage; 4x Bolt Pistol & CCW; 3x Meltagun
    Aspiring Champion:
    Power fist & Bolt Pistol

    7x Havoc Squad:
    Tank Hunters; 3x Bolt Pistol & CCW; 4x Autocannon


    Strategy:
    The HQ is attached to the 6 man Plague squad.

    The Plague Marines infiltrate onto objectives or into cover. They can choose to hold ground (if on an objective or against a cc opponent) or advance (towards an objective or shooty army). If the Plague marines get stuck into a cc, they'll rely on their resilience to keep them fighting until a dedicated cc squad arrives (which shouldn't be long with jump packs or blood frenzy).

    The Plague Marines themselves can deal with horde troops (5 toughness, 3+ save, true grit), MEQ's/monstrous creatures (2 plasma guns, powerfist), and light tanks (2 plasma guns). Even if they get bogged down, a Berzeker charge will help even things out. Raptors can act as anti tank or "tie up" a cc unit with hit and run (especially nice against wyches). The Havocs cover anti tank, while the Obliterators and Lascannon squad are security against Moniliths (melta guns work too). Obliterators help out in whatever role they're needed in.


    --------------------------


    Imperial Guard

    HQ: 665
    Elites: 160
    Troops: 658
    Fast Attack: 0
    Heavy Support: 367

    Doctrines:
    Light Infantry
    Special Weapon Squads
    Heavy Weapon Platoons
    Special Equipment: Cameleoline
    Iron Discipline

    5x man Heroic Senior Officer Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 4x Grenade Launchers
    Heroic Senior Officer: Storm Bolter; Powersword, Surveyor, Iron Discipline

    6x man Special Weapon Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 3x Laspistols & close combat weapons; 2x Flamers; 1x Demo Charge

    6x man Special Weapon Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 3x Laspistols & close combat weapons; 2x Flamers; 1x Demo Charge

    6x man Fire Support Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 3x Heavy Weapon Teams with Autocannon & Lasgun

    6x man Fire Support Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 3x Heavy Weapon Teams with Autocannon & Lasgun

    6x man Anti Tank Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 3x Heavy Weapon Teams with Lascannon & Lasgun

    10x man Hardened Veterans Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 4x Lasguns; 3x Plasma Guns; 1x Heavy Weapon with Lascannon & Lasgun
    Veteran Sergeant: Stormbolter, Meltabombs

    5x man Junior Officer command squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 4x Plasma Guns
    Junior Officer: Surveyor, Iron Discipline, Lasgun

    10x man Infantry Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 6x Lasguns; 1x Plasma Gun; 1x Heavy Weapon Team with Missile Launcher & Lasgun
    Veteren Seargent: Lasgun

    10x man Infantry Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 6x Lasguns; 1x Plasma Gun; 1x Heavy Weapon Team with Missile Launcher & Lasgun
    Veteren Seargent: Lasgun

    5x man Junior Officer command squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 4x Plasma Guns
    Junior Officer: Surveyor, Iron Discipline, Lasgun

    10x man Infantry Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 6x Lasguns; 1x Plasma Gun; 1x Heavy Weapon Team with Missile Launcher & Lasgun
    Veteren Seargent: Lasgun

    10x man Infantry Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 6x Lasguns; 1x Plasma Gun; 1x Heavy Weapon Team with Missile Launcher & Lasgun
    Veteren Seargent: Lasgun

    5x man Junior Officer command squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 4x Plasma Guns
    Junior Officer: Surveyor, Iron Discipline, Lasgun

    6x man Anti Tank Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 3x Heavy Weapon Teams with Lascannon & Lasgun

    6x man Anti Tank Squad:
    Light Infantry; Cameleoline; 3x Heavy Weapon Teams with Lascannon & Lasgun



    Tactics:
    The entire force infiltrates & has a 1 better armor save from cover. All but the veterans get an extra die moving through difficult terrain. The tactic is to force the enemy to deploy first, then set up to alpha strike his most critical units When possible setting up in a flanking attack. Once set up utilize massive fire power destroying nearby targets & 4+ cover saves to weather the return fire.
    Weapon breakdown:
    6 laspistols
    46 lasguns
    2 storm bolters
    4 flamers
    4 grenade launchers
    19 plasma guns
    6 autocannons
    4 missile launchers
    10 lascannons
    2 demo charges
    Across 112 models

    Last edited by Caluin; April 30th, 2006 at 22:26.


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  3. #2
    Dancing Peanuts? You bet! Robizzle's Avatar
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    106 (x4)

    Against the Plague Marines, a large portion of the IG shooting is pointless - needing 36 lasgun shots to kill 1 Marine is not worth mentioning. Seeing as they will be in combat turn 2, given any form of decent terrain.

    The Khorne will be able to follow up very nicely once the Guard are pre-occupied with the Plague Marines, and once they get to the lines it's pretty much over.

    There is a large number of Plasma Guns, however, the Autocannon havocs will be able to snipe them very well. With no meat shields in the squad, its going to lose some. In the mean time, the Obliterators can do the same job with heavy bolters. If they can both do serious damage to 2 command sections, thats 8 plasma guns down the drain.

    Also, the Raptors can converge nicely on any meaty objectives.

    The main problem with the IG army is it's all infiltrating, meaning it can't lend fire support as close as it would want to. The Black Legion units might not be able to hop from squad to squad, but once the dangerous Plasma Guns are down, there isn't much left for them to do.

    Black Legion

  4. #3
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    185 (x8)

    I heard some very strong aurments for this IG list against the blood angles, who are faster, and better in assault then the black legion.

    The typicall problem for IG is mobility, everything infiltrating solves that. They could probably deploy on two of the objectives, and since they can choose where at least two of them go, they could put them in heavy cover.

    While the junior officer squads are a definate liability, i could see them easily staying out of LOS untill the chaos forces get into CC, then waiting to blast the heck out of the unit when the get out of CC, although an experct chaos player would simply delay the winning of combat untill the opponents turn.

    So the plasma guns could be used as a shock troop instead, staying out LOS, then running around, and blasting the heck out anything they see.

    Also, do Surveyors help with shooting? or possibly infiltrators?

    4 plasma guns: 8 shots, 4 hits, 3.36 dead.

    Note that there are 3 of these squads, making the total 10 dead.

    So thats more then half of the nugle force right there.

    Now all the rest of the IG army has to do is kill 10 more nugle marines.

    4 grenade launchers
    7 plasma guns
    6 autocannons
    4 missile launchers
    10 lascannons

    The lascannons should kill 4.2, the ML 1.67 the auto cannons 1.67, plasma guns, 2.94.

    So this comes out to be almost 9. As Zombie pointed out, 36 lasguns can kill 1, so thats 10.

    The the nugle can be eliminated before they can hit CC (thought they could probably shoot, but they wont find anything vauable)

    From there the IG range the bezekers, (although they will probably lose 2 of the 3 plasma gun squads) They can still lay down a huge amount of firepower, plus they can send the demo charge dudes forward... for comedies sake, hopefully blowing themselves up along with the bezekers.

    Imperial guard win

  5. #4
    Senior Member tiaxrulesall's Avatar
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    black legion

    -both sides are just as good at seising objectives, since raptors and plauge marines cancel IG infilrating.

    - the IG will be hard pressed to shoot down the plauge marines and raptors before CC. then they also have to kill the berxerkers with a lot engaged in CC. the BL shooting can do some casualties as well.
    Procrastination- hard work often pays off over time, but laziness always pays off now.
    Indifference- it takes 43 muscles to frown, and 17 to smile, but none to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.

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  6. #5
    Son of LO Silver Wings's Avatar
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    The IG player has put alot of his Plasma in meatshieldless command squads. That would be fine in a drop troop army, but here its an issue. The Havoks/Obliterators morphing anti-infantry weapons will be an issue.

    Thats 8/19 Plasma guns.

    The Nurgle SM can roll from squad to squad pretty easily, and I thinkt the chances of enough of the IG army having LoS to them to kill them quick are slim.

    After that there are Beserkers fleeting at you, if the IG infiltrate forward to capture objectives then the Khornates will be on them pretty quick.

    Raptors are nasty on IG, especaily with infiltrate.

    Black Legion
    Every time you read this sig: a fairie dies!

  7. #6
    Senior Member JORMAGI's Avatar
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    Hmm, The way I see this is that the Plague Marines are really the biggest problem for the guard, they're going to be hard to deal with. Everything else will not be a problem.

    Analisis:
    HQ: a marine with a gun: shooting is overkill for power, but doesn't ignore the cover save so it's not a big threat.

    Bezerkers: they're not a shooting threat, and they're really good at CC, probably too good in this scenerio, the odds of them killing all the guard is very high, with the ability to spread out by infiltrating, they're not likely to be able sweap from unit to unit. This means that after killing one squad they're liable to be sitting ducks to guard shooting. This coupled with the predictabilty of Bezerkers makes it easy gauge where they're gonna kill (and often controll it) This will make it an easy matter for the Guard to have a nasty suprize for the bezerkers when they're done with their first squad: ranging from a plasmagun firing line, to a happy demo charge right into the middle of the squad: probably both and more. . . They're not likely to make back their points.

    Obliterators: they'll probably get good use out of their heavy bolters, and should they get close could cause flamer trouble, they like the plague marines are going to be a threat.

    Plague Marines are going to potentailly mess up Guard's ideal setup scenerio (50% chance), are tough to kill with lasguns, and a shooting obsticle, and CC problem. However only one nurgle marine squad is placed, then the guard place 3+ squads, and claim the rest of the board (or guard deploy infiltrators first, then deploy 3+ squads and set aside as much of the board as they would like.) Also I'd like to point out that nurgle marines go down to heavy weapons just as fast as any other marine. They may be tough, but they're also expensive, and the guard list is tooled to take out tough powerarmored targets, they're no different.
    (forged ran the numbers, shooting is going to hurt)


    Havoc's & normal marine squad: their ideal target is not on the battlefield. They setup at the start of the game. Their weapons are overkill, but still don't have a better than even chance of killing a single guardsmen. The IG setup so no critical targets are in LOS, then procede to worry about the real threats. If they want a better target, they're going to have to move, either way not expecially threatening to the guard players plans.

    Raptors: they're going to smash a guard squad. . .then if there is anything left alive they're going to run with a -2 penalty to a leadership 7, (with likely below 1/2 penalties and perhaps outnumbering.) Running will most likely mean that the guard are dead. . .and the raptors will most likely left in the open to be shot at. Still they're also a valid threat.

    Ultimatly guard's ability to cut through the Chaos's armor with ease, and their ability to utilize the cover on the board to spread out for safty from CC, and resilience to shooting attacks. (Not to mention to claim objectives) Will give them a clear edge in this fight. But it will be a good fight.

    Imperial Guard
    Votewar MKV 2nd place. . .

    Back from internet limbo, and glad to be here.

  8. #7
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    hmmm forged forgot that the plague marines are going to be infiltrating into cover so the plasma guns arent as devastating. However no-one mentioned the 2 demo charges. If 1 of these babies goes off thats a whole plague marines squad gone. I'm going to watch furnace and robizzle slug it out before voting.
    Check out my Codex: Farmyard Animals here!

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  9. #8
    Senior Member Librarian Augustine's Avatar
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    I vote Imperial Gaurd

    they have a ton of firepower that they can use to kill the plague marines and berzerkers as they advance. Although the black legion could get into cc relatively quickly I think the gaurd will do a ton of damage to them and after that the Black Legion won't have enought cc power to get it done.

  10. #9
    Dancing Peanuts? You bet! Robizzle's Avatar
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    I think everyone is over-estimating the firepower of the Imeprial Guard.

    Almost all the Plasma comes from Command Sections - these are easily snipable, because there would be no meat shields - the first casualties from the squads will be plasma. If a single squad of Death Guard rapid fires a command section, it would be lucky not to be wiped out. It would most likely be on cover, but will still lose 3-4 men.

    If 2 squads do that, thats 7-ish plasma guns down, and the rest of the shooting simply isn't effective. lasguns are almost useless, and Autocannons/granade launchers simply aren't worthwhile. The Plague Marines will tie them up, then it'll go downhill from there.

    Both armies infiltrate, which is the main problem here.

    Oh, and Link, the demo charges won't be *that* effective. They're most likely the number 1 threat, and if it is thrown, and scatters even 1" it will not kill the whole squad, and because of its range they will get assaulted. Thats if they get in range. A number 1 thread won't last long - unless they're very cleverly deployed. Still...a scatter is a fail.

    Demo charges are not as good as they are in theory.
    Last edited by Robizzle; April 30th, 2006 at 18:00.

  11. #10
    Member MoosieFate's Avatar
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    The Guard have about 45 MEQ killers. This will kill about 10 per round. The good cover saves they have will help mess up some of the shooting of the Black Legion. The Black Legion simply does not have the ability to take out 112 models after they've been hit by all that firepower. I am sure evryone knows that the oblithertors and havocs will be the first ones to go, the return fire won't be suficient enough to break through their +4 cover.

    IG

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