40k VWInfantry - Round #2 - Battle #17 - Kroot -Vs- Alaitoc Eldar - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Dancing Peanuts? You bet! Robizzle's Avatar
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    40k VWInfantry - Round #2 - Battle #17 - Kroot -Vs- Alaitoc Eldar

    I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner. All missions have the Infiltration, Deep Strike, and Victory Points special rules.

    Seek and Destroy

    Kroot Mercenaries


    HQ: 120
    Elites: 0
    Troops: 534
    Fast Attack: 495
    Heavy Support: 101


    Master Shaper
    Power Weapon; Slugga; Frag Grenades; Wings; Mark of the Favored Child; Kroothawk Totem

    Carnivore Kindred
    14x Kroot
    13x Kroot Rifle
    Shaper; Eviscerator; Blood of the Stalker

    Carnivore Kindred
    14x Kroot
    13x Kroot Rifle
    Shaper; Eviscerator; Blood of the Stalker

    Carnivore Kindred
    14x Kroot
    13x Kroot Rifle
    Shaper; Eviscerator; Blood of the Stalker

    Hound Pack
    10x Kroot; 14x Kroot Hounds
    Hyperactive Nymune Organ; 9x Kroot rifle
    Shaper; Eviscerator; Blood of the Staler; Surefoot Charm

    Vulture Kindred
    14x Vulture Kroot
    13x Kroot Rifle
    Shaper; Eviscerator; Slugga; Blood of the Stalker

    Hunter Kindred
    10x Kroot
    9x Kroot Hunting Rifle
    Shaper; Kroot Hunting Rifle


    Rule Notes:
    -Master Shaper is a shaper with +1 I, +2 Ld, and a 5+ sv.
    -Hyperactive Nymune Organ gives him fleet of foot.
    -Mark of the Favored Child gives him a 4+ save.
    -Kroothawk totem aloows the army to reroll when seeing who goes first.
    -Sure foot charm allows shaper and unit joined to roll 2d6 and choose the best when FoF’ing. Hounds gain ability of their parent units Kroot purchase it.
    -Blood of the Stalker lets unit and joined character to deploy d6� closer when infiltrating that normally allowed.
    -Wings/Vulture Kroot move as jump infantry, but do not need to take difficult terrain test when landing in woods or jungle terrain.
    -Kroot Hunting Rifle is a sniper rifle, same as any other.

    All other Kroot rules found in the ORIGINAL TAU CODEX, except, because shapers must be taken, all kroot have the armour and Ld bonuses, and point increase, included in the cost. The Chapter Approved rules do not use the same statlines as found in codex: Tau Empires.
    (Omit any of this or make it more LO friendly for the vote war if needed)

    Strategy notes:
    This list is designed to hit hard and fast. The Vultures and the Hound Pack are both capable of first turn assault. This is accomplished with the wargear items Blood of the Stalker, Surefoot Charm and the models Wings and Hyperactive Nymune Organ.

    The Blood of the Stalker allows the unit to get closer when infiltrating, so the 18� charge of the Vultures will guarantee them a first turn assault when they infiltrate 17-12� of the enemy. For the Hound Pack, their fleet of foot allows them to do the same, and the Surefoot Charm means they are more likely to get there. In fact, they have a 74.5% chance of meeting the required distance and getting the first turn assault, when at the maximum infiltrating distance of 18�.

    So, using this, coupled with the Carnivore Kindreds and Hunter Kindread, it goes something like this. Carnivores and Hunters get the best cover, while the Vultures and Hound Pack get as close as possible. The Kroothawk totem allows them to get first turn very easily. Then the Vultures and Hound Pack rush forwards, and the Carnivores use their field craft to either stay hidden and shoot through thick forest cover, or move closer with their Blood of the Stalker ability to walk up and unleash a rapid fire hail. The Hunter Kindred will stay in cover and snipe. Then the Hound Pack and Vultures hit the thinned enemy line and munch through it. They then proceed to take out other units, although it must be noted that they cannot consolidate into them, so it is even more important to stay in close combat for two assault phases. The Carnivores will continue provide cover fire and charge when the need arises, but the Hunters should try to stay away from CC (reason they didn’t get Blood of the Stalker).

    Rules for Kroot Mercs may be found at: http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/kroot%2Dlist/

    Model Count – 77
    61 Kroot Rifles
    10 Kroot hunting rifles

    --------------------------------

    Alaitoc
    Eldar

    HQ: 180
    Elites: 360
    Troops: 703


    Farseer:
    Eldar jetbike; Runes of witnessing; Mind war

    Farseer:
    Eldar jetbike; Runes of witnessing; Mind war

    5x Alaitoc Path-finders:
    5x Ranger long rifles

    5x Alaitoc Path-finders:
    5x Ranger long rifles

    5x Alaitoc Path-finders:
    5x Ranger long rifles

    6x Rangers:
    6x Ranger long rifles

    6x Rangers:
    6x Ranger long rifles

    6x Rangers:
    6x Ranger long rifles

    6x Rangers:
    6x Ranger long rifles

    6x Rangers:
    6x Ranger long rifles

    7x Rangers:
    7x Ranger long rifles

    Notes:
    -Nearly the entire army infiltrates
    -Army is mobile: fleet of foot/jetbikes, move through cover (or in pathfinder's case, don't need to roll for difficult terrain, plus can move through impassable terrain)
    -Army gets bonus to cover saves (besides farseers)
    -37 rangers and 15 pathfinders means a fair chance of getting ap1 shots, as well as pinning
    -Farseers can scoot around and mind war pesky weapons/characters
    -9 rolls on disruption table

    Model Count – 54
    52 Ranger Long Rifles
    2 Mind Wars


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  3. #2
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    The disprution scrolls will be annoying, but the one or two kroot squads not effected will get into CC quickly, and slaughter the eldar.

    These eldar arent much tougher then the dark eldar this list just faced, and far less powerful in CC, once they get a few squads into the enemies lines, they really have no hope of getting them out.

    So the kroot can just go on a killing spear.

    Kroot, mission seek and destory.

  4. #3
    LO Zealot Arakiaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar
    The disruption scrolls will be annoying, but the one or two kroot squads not effected will get into CC quickly, and slaughter the eldar.

    These eldar aren't much tougher then the dark eldar this list just faced, and far less powerful in CC, once they get a few squads into the enemies lines, they really have no hope of getting them out.

    So the kroot can just go on a killing spear.

    Kroot, mission seek and destroy.
    You have a good point Forged, but the eldar have 9 squads of disruption (if the pathfinders does that too) against 7 squads of kroots so there will probably only be one squads of kroots at the board first round and since they most likely have first turn and charges out in cc killing one team of eldars and then being out in the open then the eldars can kill them by shooting before they can reach cc again. And the Farseer can kill them too with there mind war and kill them from the sky since kroots need a 5+ on the dice to glance them. And only having one squad in turn one leave them vulnerable. I agree that afterwards the kroots will have a decent chance for a comeback when they get their units on the board.

    This is actually quite tough to vote but I'll go for the late comeback of the kroot and vote for them. kroot for the win
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  5. #4
    Member Split Crescent's Avatar
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    As mentioned before, disruption rolls initially will be brutal for the Kroot. 0-2 squads, 3 if very lucky, will be deployed. Just as likely, some of those squads will be pinned - probably just as good for the eldar, since they can shoot them to pieces.

    Now let's look at numbers.

    There will be, say, 20 kroot on the table at the start of the game. They probably won't get a first-turn charge. Several reasons
    1) Eldar is shooty. They'll probably deploy reasonably far back after setting up a squad or two to restrict kroot infiltrating.
    2) If the eldar get first turn, their vulnerable squads can fleet back. The other squads are free to shoot.

    There is a chance Eldar will go first, and get 3 turns of shooting before being overtaken by surefoot.
    There is a chance Kroot will go first, get lucky, and find a 1st or 2nd turn charge.
    Most likely, Eldar will have 2 turns of shooting.

    I'll assume that about 75% of the rangers will be able to shoot. Over 2 turns, that's about 78 rifles.
    78 rifles * 5/6 = 65 hits
    65 hits * 1/2 =32.5 wounds
    32.5 wounds * 2/3 fail cover saves = 21.667

    So, without a 4+ cover save, the kroot will likely all die. If a squad or two does manage to get through, there are still 52 rangers to about 10 kroot (with some casualties) or, with poor luck, 20 kroots/hounds. That's still more likely a win for the eldar in close combat.

    Keep in mind the kroot will also be pinnable even if one squad shoots at them, a little less than half the time.

    I think you're overestimating the chance of a first turn charge, or you didn't think about the power of 52 long rifles against kroot. It seems to me that the alaitoc have a secure win.
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  6. #5
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    708 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arakiaz
    the eldar have 9 squads of disruption (if the pathfinders does that too) against 7 squads of kroots so there will probably only be one squads of kroots at the board first round
    Actually, it's more like four units will be on the board. Remember that no unit can be effected by Disruption more than once, and there are other effects than just being pulled off into Reserve. A more accurate analysis would be two units being in reserve, two units pinned, and two units slightly hurt by pre-game shooting. That's bad, but not THAT bad.

    Another thing is that the Kroot have just as good cover skills as the Eldar, which will severly limit their damage. Rending from shooting still allows a cover save, and when you have a 4+ cover save, that says a lot. Also imagine if the Kroot decided to use heavy wood cover and leave 7 to 12 inches between them and the Eldar. They get to shoot, but the Eldar don't.

    Kroot take the win. I think this list will be hard to beat.


  7. #6
    heretical thoughts? ShadowZora13's Avatar
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    231 (x4)

    The eldar are bad in cc, and don't have a ton of shots. Once the kroot units that deply get into cc, it will more than likely spell the end for the eldar. Also, the large hound squad has the potential to charge multiple units, especially since the rangers will most likely be bunched together in cover.

    What do you mean, Arakiaz, 5+ to glance what? The farseers are on jetbikes, not vypers...

    Also, can mindwar pick ut an IC that is not the closest model?

    Anyways, eldar in cc will look like this eldar strike first cause of cover, or initiative if they were both in the same cover.

    5 eldar attack, 5 attacks, 2.5 hit, 1.25 wound, 1.04 failed saves, or 1 dead kroot. let say this was the vultures attacking, with 2 casualties from shooting. thats 10 kroot attacking, 30 attacks, 20 hit, 13 wound, and 8 failed saves. thats one squad down, but if the kroot are smart they would have assaulted 2 squads, killing all of the two squads with the eviscerator factored in, even after taking the extra casualty.

    It won't be too hard for ven the reduced numbers of kroot to do the same to every squad of rangers. and pathfinders die just as easily.

    Over all the disruption wont help them too much, and they don't have the volume of fire or to take out the kroot before they reach cc, where the alaitocs weak cc ability will get them killed. Alhtought it will be close and a very difficult battle to easily predict with all those disruption rolls.

    I vote Kroot


    "...lest we perish without ever recognizing our peril"
    -Inquisitor Hoth

  8. #7
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    228 (x8)

    lol both armies infiltrating...

    The HQ will die to mind war, I'm not sure if hes Ld 10 but if he isnt hes gone 1st turn. And yes it can pick out anyone in range no matter what (cept LoS).

    I would trust every single kroot squad to have to take a pinnging test each turn. As Caluin has so kindly said their will be approx. 4 squads on the board. Not to mention the squads starting off pinned or half-dead, 9 alaitoc squads mean that they will be taking 2 pinning tests per turn, meaning that approx. 1 will be unpinned. If that 1 squad can get a charge before the next Alaitoc shooting phase then 1 squad of rangers might die. Turn 2 squads will start dying as well as pinning, Everyone except the squad in cc will be either dead or pinned all over again.

    At this time 1 squad will have come out of reserve but seeing as its from a table edge they wont be able to assault yet.

    turn 3 for the eldar will see the remaining original forces of the kroot shot dead. The cc kroot squad will probably kill another squad of rangers, the 2 kroot squads in on the board will become pinned and stay pinned for the rest of the game.

    Now as for the kroot in cc, 12 rangers, 24 attacks, 12 hit, 6 wound, 6 die. That kroot squad will not really be able to wipe out any more ranger squads after taking out the 1st 2.

    From then on the few remaing squads will be taking approx 6 pinning tests per turn. They will never make it into cc with the rangers and get wiped out.

    Overall I vote Alaitoc.
    Last edited by LordLink; May 20th, 2006 at 12:07.
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  9. #8
    Dawn Under Heaven Triumph Of Man's Avatar
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    Kroot

    I think one thing that isn't really being taken into consideration is that the Vultures And kroothounds are quite fast. Also, it's unliekly with both armies infiltrating all over the place that the shooting can be concentrated on a single squad of kroot unlike in other matches. So even if a few kroot make it through to assault the shaper will happily murder anything left alive with his evicerator.

    Not to mention the kroot can shoot back.


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  10. #9
    heretical thoughts? ShadowZora13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordLink
    lol both armies infiltrating...

    The HQ will die to mind war, I'm not sure if hes Ld 10 but if he isnt hes gone 1st turn. And yes it can pick out anyone in range no matter what (cept LoS).

    I would trust every single kroot squad to have to take a pinnging test each turn. As Caluin has so kindly said their will be approx. 4 squads on the board. Not to mention the squads starting off pinned or half-dead, 9 alaitoc squads mean that they will be taking 2 pinning tests per turn, meaning that approx. 1 will be unpinned. If that 1 squad can get a charge before the next Alaitoc shooting phase then 1 squad of rangers might die. Turn 2 squads will start dying as well as pinning, Everyone except the squad in cc will be either dead or pinned all over again.

    At this time 1 squad will have come out of reserve but seeing as its from a table edge they wont be able to assault yet.

    turn 3 for the eldar will see the remaining original forces of the kroot shot dead. The cc kroot squad will probably kill another squad of rangers, the 2 kroot squads in on the board will become pinned and stay pinned for the rest of the game.

    Now as for the kroot in cc, 12 rangers, 24 attacks, 12 hit, 6 wound, 6 die. That kroot squad will not really be able to wipe out any more ranger squads after taking out the 1st 2.

    From then on the few remaing squads will be taking approx 6 pinning tests per turn. They will never make it into cc with the rangers and get wiped out.
    OK, there are some things seriously wrong with all that.

    First, M shapers are ld 10, but I do admit that it will be an annoyance if it takes out the m shaper and eviscerator toting shapers, but over all shouldn't be too bad.

    second, how ar they half dead? what can 5-7 sniper rounds do to a 14 man squad, especially when over half will not do anything - 4+ is half, plus the 2+ to hit, and all the kroot will be starting in cover so a 4+ cover save (most of the time, as woods/jungles give them 4+, and ruins/rubble is a 4+), reducing effectiveness even more, means that the before game shots wont be doing much, not to mention all the shots in game...7 shots will kill 1.5 kroot, 5 shots only 1 kroot, when in 4+ cover, which they will be more often tha not. btw, the total ranger force will be killing 10-11 kroot from shooting under ideal conditions, ie all eldar have range and los, using the same statistics as above. Not that impressive imo, even if they spread the fire out to max on pinning shots, which are taken on ld 8 or 10.

    the reserve squads might not be able to do much, but the alaitoc wont be doing much back at them...

    OK, now the cc stats are....a bit off. Where are 12 rangers getting 24 attacks? By charging? If so, they werent shooting I guess, meaning other calculations on how many kroot die and get pinned are off. Well, they might get their pistol shots, but those aren't as good (killing 2-3 kroot)Besides that, if they want to charge, they are going second as the kroot, probably pinned by your reasoning, are stuck in their cover, and thus strike first, crippling those 2 squads down to 5-6 models depending on the kroot casualties from sniper shots. and even if the rangers COULD kill 6 kroot, those ranger squads, 2 of the 9 very precious squads they got, will be dead in a couple of cc phases. Now that could up to 4-6 squads gone if the eldar want to charge 2-3 squads, so over half the eldar force gone for giving heavy casualties to 1/3 of the kroot...yea, thats worth it.

    as for the last comment, you are really over estimating how much fire those eldar can really put out. If there are 2-3 squads of kroot left, as you are implying by the plural 'squads', then how can 9 ranger squads inflict 6 pinning checks on every single squad? last time I checked 9<12-18. Either way, less kroot will die to the sniper fire than you think.

    And what about the eldar, you thnk they wont get shot at? The kroot have snipers that are arguably better than the rangers or alaitoc, because of their feild craft. Those guys are invunerable to enemy fire if deployed right. Stand back 7-12" in some nice woods, fire at the enemy, and you are perfectly safe because of the fade out rules. Eldar squads will be taking a pinning check almost every turn too, with the same odds of failing as the kroot.

    Remeber, if you 'accedentally' randomly get the hound squad pinned or shot at by disruption, it cant be affected again, so it can still put up a fight on table. that, and only 2-3 squads, 3 if they are lucky and get more taken to reserves before the 9 are used up, as here, 9 only means they get a pseudo reroll on a 1, as there are less than 9 squads of kroot, but the squads in reserve, unless they are the hounds or vultures, wont be all that bad.


    "...lest we perish without ever recognizing our peril"
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  11. #10
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    228 (x8)

    Ah sorry for a brief moment of insanity I thought the rangers had ccw's as well as pistols...

    You know what I agree with ShadowZora my argument was weak. The kroot will have very little cover as Alaitoc will half but still...

    Changing my vote to Kroot.
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