40K VWMkV - Round #7 - Battle #62 - Siam-Hann Eldar versus Dark Angels - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    40K VWMkV - Round #7 - Battle #62 - Siam-Hann Eldar versus Dark Angels

    Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner. All missions have the Infiltration, Deep Strike, and Victory Points special rules.

    Mission Type - Take and Hold


    Siam-Hann Eldar

    HQ 103
    Elites: 0
    Troops: 0
    Fast Attack: 1185
    Heavy Support: 210


    Farseer:
    Mindwar; Singing Spear; Eldar Jetbike w/ Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapults

    3 Vypers;
    3x Starcannon and Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapults

    3 Vypers;
    3x Starcannon and Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapults

    3 Vypers;
    3x Starcannon and Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapults

    3 Vypers;
    3x Bright Lance and Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapults

    3 Vypers;
    3x Bright Lance and Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapults

    3 Vypers
    3x Dual Shuriken Cannons (Not Twin-Linked)

    Falcon:
    Pulse Laser, Starcannon; Shuriken Cannon; Holo-field; Spirit Stones


    ------------------


    Dark Angels

    HQ: 400
    Elites: 0
    Troops: 360
    Fast Attack: 480
    Heavy Support: 260

    Deathwing Codicier:
    Terminator Armour; Stubborn; Fear of the Darkness; Furious Charge

    4x Deathwing Command Terminators:
    2x Storm Bolter & Powerfist; 2x Assault Cannon & Powerfist, Drop Pod; Furious Charge

    5x Tactical Marines:
    4x Bolters; 1x Plasma cannon

    5x Tactical Marines:
    4x Bolters; 1x Plasma cannon

    5x Tactical Marines:
    4x Bolters; 1x Plasma cannon

    5x Tactical Marines:
    4x Bolters; 1x Plasma cannon

    2x Ravenwing Land Speeders
    Assault Cannon & Heavy Bolter

    2x Ravenwing Land Speeders
    Assault Cannon & Heavy Bolter

    2x Ravenwing Land Speeders
    Assault Cannon & Heavy Bolter

    Vindicator:
    Demolisher Cannon; Storm Bolter; Extra Armour

    Vindicator:
    Demolisher Cannon; Storm Bolter; Extra Armour



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  3. #2
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    830 (x8)

    Ooh. That's going to be an interesting battle...

    The Saim Hann army has the following going for it:
    • Highly mobile
    • Plenty of low-AP weapons
    • Mostly vehicles - harder to take out than standard infantry

    However, the Dark Angels have:
    • Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolter galore
    • Many small, spread out units
    • Fair amount of medium-strength weapons, good vs. Vypers

    In the end, it's going to be extremely close. I think it all adds up to who is going to get the first turn, and take down the most Skimmers first.. those Land Speeders (and the Termies) are a huge threat to the Vypers with their Assault Cannons and Heavy Bolters.

    Of course, those Vypers are a huge threat to anything in the Space Marine army, having huge amounts of AP2 and a decent amount of shots - those Terminators will go down, probably the turn after they DS from massed Star Cannon and Bright Lance fire, quite easily.

    The DA army is going to have a hard time taking that Falcon down, especially if the Assault Cannons go poof quickly enough. The Vindicators are too slow and short-ranged, I think, to be able to get in a good range to wreak havoc before the Vypers or Falcon take it down.

    Missionwise, the DA army is slow (with their Troops), but once they get onto the objective they will be capable of holding it. The problem is, of course, that the Vypers can dish enough damage to them to push them below 50% strength - quite an easy feat with so few members in each squad.

    Overall, it's going to be very close, but I'm going to have to go with.... *drumroll*

    The Saim-Hann Eldar

  4. #3
    Dancing Peanuts? You bet! Robizzle's Avatar
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    106 (x4)

    I think the Dark Angels might have a chance here.

    The Land Speeders, if cleverly used, have a pretty good chance of taking down the Bright Lance Vypers, and after that, the Demolishers could be used to great effect.

    The squads, if lucky might get at least 1 Plasma Cannon shot off each, in which case they could put down a Vyper. Armour 10 open topped isn't great.

    Still...I'll have to see what other people say first...

  5. #4
    Senior Member JORMAGI's Avatar
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    Saim-Hann

    I think that the lack of mobility with the exception of the landspeeders is going to make it very hard for the Dark angels to react to the movements of the vipers. I think that the Dark Angels won't be able to get a good enough of targets to fire for much effect. After the land speeders are down it will just be a mop up as the vipers destroy squads one at a time: with that squads allies all too far away to really help them out.
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  6. #5
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    830 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robizzle
    I think the Dark Angels might have a chance here.

    The Land Speeders, if cleverly used, have a pretty good chance of taking down the Bright Lance Vypers, and after that, the Demolishers could be used to great effect.

    The squads, if lucky might get at least 1 Plasma Cannon shot off each, in which case they could put down a Vyper. Armour 10 open topped isn't great.

    Still...I'll have to see what other people say first...
    I agree, they do have a chance. However, the Dark Angels have limited mobility outside of their Land Speeders, as JORMAGI pointed out. Also, they have such small squads that if you just kill a few of them, while they might still be a sort of threat, they no longer count as scoring units, and therefore cannot claim the Take & Hold objective.

    Don't forget, also, that if the Vypers move over 6" in the Movement Phase, the Skimmers Moving Fast rule will turn all penetrating hits into glancing hits, so the Vypers will have an increased chance to survive.

  7. #6
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    185 (x8)

    Well, the dark angles have 8 Assault cannons, that is basically the weapon of choice to fight these AV10 open topped vehicels.

    Infact, there is no better weapon in the game for downing skimmers.

    1 LST skimmer squad shoot at vypers:

    8 shots: 5.33 hits, rends dont matter, 2.67 glancing hits.

    6 HB shots: 4 hits, 1.33 glancing hits.

    That is a staggering 4 glancing hits! Thats good enough to down two skimmers + damage the third.

    That would be 6 skimmers in one turn, destoryed, while 3 others are most likly unable to shoot, or are in some other way damaged.

    Now, the terminators, they have 2 ACs, we know thats good enough for 2.67 glancing hits.

    4 storm bolter shots: add on another .43 glancing hits.

    For a total of 3.1 glancing hits, 1.55 skimmers destoryed, 1.55 skimmers damaged per turn.

    That equalts in game terms to more like: 2 skimmers destoryed, and 1 damaged OR(not and) 1 skimmer destoryed and 2 damaged.

    That is still very impressive firepower.

    Vindicators are much better at shooting groups of things, so it has a much large chance of hurting skimmer squadrons then a single skimmer. So its firepower most also be respected.

    Finally bolters and plasma cannons are also good Anti skimmer weapons, when worst comes to worst.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In return, the eldar arent as effective at skimmer hunting, all be it, they do have effective firepower.

    6 brightlances, 3 hits, 2.52 glances, .83 landspeeder destoryed. These weapons also, are needed to hunt AV 13, which will strech them thin.

    A vyper squad with 3 starcannons: 4.5 hits, 2.25 glancing hit, 1.89 jink save, .62

    If all of the vypers starcannon fires could fire only at the skimmers: 1.86 destoryed.

    That is horrendly less effective then the 6 destoryed vypers that the landspeeders can dish out.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So for fire effectiveness the dark angles are way ahead, even tho they are out numbered.

    Now, enebatably, someone will bring up the topic of the eldar hiding the whole game.

    Before we go down the path of hiding 19 tanks is impossible...

    Its also stragic suidice.

    lets assume the eldar hide there vehicels some how. The dark angles will then advance there troops of the field to the center of the table, while keeping there skimmers ' just over the horizon' basically, if the eldar move out to strike at any time, the DA skimmers are waiting just out of LOS, to return fire.

    This allows the Da troops, and vindicators to take the center. Along with the termintors.
    Now the firebase of the dark angles is very effective, bolters are more likely to be in range, skimmer tactics of hit and hit (kill everything that can see you, or move to see you, and thus not be shot at in return) is denied by a massed pressance of infantry and landspeeders.

    The infantry supports the skimmers, by putting themselves in postions to deny hit and hide opportunities.

    Finally, turn 5 if the DAs go second, or 6 if they go first.

    This is the turn before the eldar move to tie the objective-
    Where they send all there troops into the middle in hopes of scoring, a theory proposed quite a lot.

    Instead of reacting to this move, the DAs make a premative strike, sending there speeders into horrible postions, normally.

    The speeders, and possibly termintors, open fire on the vypers, they should kill 6 + damage 3 + whatever the termintors can kill.

    Now the eldar is left with a bitter choice- avenge the dead, and earn victory points that way, or head for the middle, and score victory points with what is left of my force force.

    Chances are the eldar will need to move two far in order to make it to the middle to also fire.

    This now makes the tactic of hiding probably not an option.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Instead, the eldar must find a way o strike first. That will be difficult with a 36 inch shield around the landspeeders (the infantry) Backed up by the termintors.

    Unfortanitly, for the eldar, the over the horizon tactic- keeping the landspeeders in a postion to hit any skimmers which move to fire on the DA tactical squads will win the day.

    Any time the eldar wing the sword to strike, they must also lower their shield.

    The dark angles will make a slow, grinding advance, under multi shields of protection, eventually they will force the eldar back, and capture the objective.

    Dark Angles

  8. #7
    Senior Member JORMAGI's Avatar
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    Forged, you are shortchanging the starcannon one shot each, while I've heard rumors that their profile will be changed to heavy 2, unless the new eldar codex changes it they're still heavy 3.
    Also you fail to account for the shrukien cannon vipers wich each have effectivly 6 str 5 shots if I'm not mistaken.
    And the falcon with ~8 more effective shots.

    Altogether you jiped Eldar 35 effective shots in your estimation. Hardly a fair apprasal of the situation.
    There is quite enough firepower under the eldar flag to destroy/stun all of the landspeeders in one turn.
    Votewar MKV 2nd place. . .

    Back from internet limbo, and glad to be here.

  9. #8
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    185 (x8)

    Star cannons are 3 shots.

    3*3 = 9*.5= 4.5 hits.

    Perhaps you thought eldar where BS4?

    Also you fail to account for the shrukien cannon vipers wich each have effectivly 6 str 5 shots if I'm not mistaken.
    Must i list everything...

    I also didnt list 2 demonlisher cannons + 4 plasma cannons and 16 bolters.

    Skurkien cannons are heavy 3 i think. So mutiply the results of the starcannon squad by two.

    However, this does not impact the stratagy of the dark angles-

    The troops advance with an over the horizon force of landspeeders guarding them.

    If the vypers move to close to the infantry, in an attempt to hunt the skimmers, then the infantry + tanks opens fire on them (plus the skimmers)

    If they open fire on the infantry, same thing, just the infantry is put through cheese ginder first. Since dark angle squads are immune to moral(for the purposes of returning fire) theres a good chance that would end badly for the eldar, all be it, theyd kill a good number of marines.

    (but they would lose more then they killed in points on the following turn.)

    Anyway, marines firing at full effect would be 38 jiped shots.
    Last edited by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar; July 27th, 2006 at 05:24.

  10. #9
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    830 (x8)

    Keep in mind... every time the Marines move, they can't shoot.

    They can only move 6" a turn, and need to take the objective in the center of the table. They are slow.

    They are in small units, and only three of them per unit need to die for that unit to no longer be eligible to hold the objective.

    You have to keep the objective in mind - it isn't that hard to hide things from LOS, believe me - as a Mech Tau player I'm quite familiar with the process. I don't think the Marines will be able to take the objective nearly as confidently as you are making it seem.

    It will be a tough battle and will rely heavily, I think, on fire lanes and who gets the first turn, etc. etc. but, close as it may be, I think the Eldar will be able to tough it out.

  11. #10
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    185 (x8)

    it isn't that hard to hide things from LOS, believe me - as a Mech Tau player I'm quite familiar with the process. I don't think the Marines will be able to take the objective nearly as confidently as you are making it seem.
    Indeed, that is an advantage for the dark angles, as they cannot strike the eldar all at once, so picking them apart, or forcing them backwards 6 inches at a time, is worthwile for them.

    The marines move up 6 inches, and invite the eldar to fire on them, if they take the bait, other tactical squads/all the skimmers/termintors/vindis, blast them.

    In this way, the marines can trade the eldar 1 or 2 tactical squads for 2 to 4 vyper squads, depending now how much each party can see.

    Forcing your enemy backwards, and or baiting them to strike, is a slow proccess, however if your suggeting a unit moveing 6 inches a turn cannot make it to the center of the board, well..

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