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40K VoteWar MkVI - Round 2 - Battle 30 - Tyranids versus Space Wolves

1K views 24 replies 10 participants last post by  ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar 
#1 ·
Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner.

Mission Type - Recon

Mission Rules -
Infiltration; Deep Strike; Victory Points



Hive Fleet Wyvern
Tyranids


Hive Tyrant
2x Scything talons; Adrenal Glands (WS); Adrenal Glands (I) ; Toxin Sacs; Wings

Broodlord
Extended Carapace; Feeder Tendrils; Flesh hooks;
6x Genestealers (Broodlord Retinue)
Extended Carapace; Scything talons

4x Warriors
Enhanced Senses; Extended Carapace
1x Venom Cannon & Scything Talons; 3x Deathspitter & Scything Talons

Carnifex
2x Twin-Linked Devourer; Enhanced Senses; Flesh Hooks

8x Genestealers;
Extended Carapace

15x Hormagaunts

10x Termagaunts
Fleshborers

15x Spinegaunts
Spinefists

15x Spinegaunts
Spinefists

16x Gargoyles
Fleshborer; Bio-plasma

2x Zoanthropes
Warp Field; Synapse; Warp Blast; Toxic Miasma

Carnifex
Venom Cannon; Barbed Strangler; Reinforced Chitin; Extended Carapace; Enhanced Senses

Carnifex
2x Scything Talons; Bonded Exoskeleton; Extended Carapace; Reinforced Chitin; Spinebanks; Tail Weapon – Mace; Tusked



-----------------------



Space Wolves


Wolf Lord Sven Bloodhowl
Frost Blade; Bolter-melta; Runic Charm; Wolf Tooth Necklace; Belt of Russ

Venerable Dreadnought Bjorn the Fell-handed
Assault cannon; extra armor

Wolf-priest Alric Spiritwolf
Frost Axe; Plasma Pistol; Balms and Healing Potions; Wolf Tooth Necklace

The Cunning of Russ
6x Wolf Scouts
Infiltration; Move Through Cover; Frag Grenades
3x Bolt Pistol & CCW; 2x Power Weapon & Bolt Pistol; 1x Meltagun

Russ's Skillful
6x Wolf Scouts
Infiltration; Move Through Cover; Frag Grenades
3x Bolt Pistol & CCW; 2x Power Weapon & Bolt Pistol; 1x Meltagun

Pack Tyr
6x Grey hunters
3x Bolt Pistols & CCW; 2x Power Weapon; 1x Meltagun
Razorback w/ Heavy Bolters; Extra Armor; Smoke Launchers

Pack Heimdal
6x Grey hunters
3x Bolt Pistols & CCW; 2x Power Weapon; 1x Meltagun
Razorback w/ Heavy Bolters; Extra Armor; Smoke Launchers

Pack Morkai
8x Grey hunters
5x Bolt Pistols & CCW; 1x Meltagun; 1x Power Weapon & Bolt Pistol; 1x Powerfist & Bolt Pistol
Rhino w/ Extra Armor; Smoke Launchers

The Speed of Russ
1x Landspeeder
Assault Cannon; Heavy Bolter

The Rage of Russ
5x Long Fangs
2x Lascannon; 2x Heavy Bolter
Pack Leader w/ Bolter

The Hammers of Russ
5x Long Fangs
4x Missile Launcher
Pack Leader w/ Bolter


Tactics:
Sven and Alric will join the eight man unit of grey hunters to make use of their rhino for as long as possible.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Hmmm. I don't know about this battle. Both sides have incredible cc and good firepower. Space Wolves are slightly faster giving them an advatange with the mission.

However 3 carnifex's left behind to defend their deployment zone can do it quite well. From there the fast nids make an all-out break for the neemy deployment zone.

I think space wolves will have a problem defending their own depoloyment zone but I also think they are slightly better in cc.

I'm going to wait on this one.
 
#3 ·
You know I don't actually think that either list will be able to complete their given objective in the time given. The nids are fast, as are the space wolves; the big problem is both sides want to hit close combat to tie up their main elements.

Like LL said, the nids will most likely leave several units to defend their deployement zone and the wolves have the long fangs to do the same. I'm holding back on my vote but I'm hoping to put it forward to the space wolves.
 
#4 ·
Only having one powerfists will spell doom for the space wolves. The space wolves dont have the shooting power to bring down the tyrant, or Fexs, nor the CC power, as they would normally have if they'd had a few powerfists.

They will do well against the small bugs, but when the stealer, and tyrant get involved it will be over. The tyrant and Fex's will likely both score, in this mission.

Nids.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I think the space wolves stand a good chance here; the lack of powerfists means they have to figure out another way of killing some of the tyranids. Other ways like pointing both lascannons and all four missile launchers at the hive tyrant first turn to see if all six shots can't put some real hurt into it and damper that killing power just a little. (combined the six guns take down just over three wounds, so that would be all or all but one of the wounds on the flying tyrant in the first turn of space wolf shooting.)

As for the broodlord and retinue, first turn the seven of them are in range of two heavy bolters, two twin linked heavy bolters, an assault cannon dreadnought, and a landspeeder tornado; well any of that which manages to garner line of sight to the broodlord and retinue.

If what darkreever and LordLink said about units staying back to defend the deployment zone (such as the carnifex's for the tyranids) has any merit than I don't think the space wolves will have to worry about killing them or being killed by them to quickly.
 
#7 · (Edited)
As for the broodlord and retinue, first turn the seven of them are in range of two heavy bolters, two twin linked heavy bolters, an assault cannon dreadnought, and a landspeeder tornado; well any of that which manages to garner line of sight to the broodlord and retinue.
remeber that the broodlord and retinue infiltrates. so they have a good chance of being out of LoS or in some serious cover so it's unlikely anything but the land speeder will be shooting at full effectiveness.

If what darkreever and LordLink said about units staying back to defend the deployment zone (such as the carnifex's for the tyranids) has any merit than I don't think the space wolves will have to worry about killing them or being killed by them to quickly.
Instead of hanging back to defend the objectives, the Fexes could simply put themselves between the wolves and the tyranid deployment zone. When 10 wounds of fearless, T7, 2+ save, Montrous creature are between you and the objective, and you have 2 lascannons and one power fist you're in for a tough fight.

It also makes sense for the tyranid player to leave the Zoanthropes behind (or only advance them enough to provide synapse for the little guys), as I seem to remeber they don't count as scoring. They also have a 2+ save so unless Long Fang lascannons can shoot twice per turn they're relatively safe from return fire. With the small grey hunter squad size a hit from a thrope can knock a squad below scoring in one shot.

I'll put my vote in for the Tyranids
 
#6 ·
Well obviously the tyranid player will do whatever benefits him/her most. So if Forged shows Carnifex's need to move forwards (or split them up) then thats what they will do.

Its funny because me and darkreever have been chatting. Hes leaning Space Wolves and I'm leaning Tyranids. We agreed to see some more arguments 1st. Now we have 1 each. :(

Ah well.
 
#9 · (Edited)
those four missle launchers combined will cause an average of .29 wounds on a T7, 2+ save carnifex, so for the purposes of taking the carnie's out I discounted them as they would be much better off shooting at other targets.

and sorry about putting words into your mouth, I of course meant that as merely my interpretation of what you were saying, but I guess I should have made that more clear. I'll edit my previous post to reflect this.
 
#10 ·
Yeah with the help of re-enforced chitin (thats the save one right?) making them immune to missile launchers I don't think the wolves have the firepower to bring them down.

All these infiltrating and flying and leaping units can make the objectives pretty fast and quickly swarm over the long fangs.

I don't think the gaunts and gargoyles have the strength to break the wolves completely in cc and I'm expecing the tyrant to die to the long fang fire (leaving the broodlord free).

I think the 3 carnifex's win this game. They can stay safe as the little bugs eliminate threats. Then they walk up the board busting up any rhinos that try to get past.

Pressures on you now darkreever.

Tyranids
 
#11 ·
Yeah with the help of re-enforced chitin (thats the save one right?) making them immune to missile launchers I don't think the wolves have the firepower to bring them down.
No. Reinforced Chitin is the bonus wound one. Extended Carapace is the improved saving throw.

Sort of a moot point since both HS Carnies have both upgrades, but just clearing things up. Also note that one of the HS Carnies has a bonus to Toughness.
 
#12 ·
Bugs and Orks, between three fex's why would the long fangs bother firing at the one they can do the least to?

Against the elite fex and tyrant the lascannon long fangs and missile launcher long fangs cause a grand total of 3.34 wounds, not enough to kill either one but thats just another turn of shooting to bring either one down. (Of which between the two the tyrant is a bigger priority that may see a twin linked heavybolter fired its way and have the 3.34 turned into a 3.8.)

For the heavy support gunfex after one salvo of missile/las it suffers from the loss of 1.5 wounds. Not as much but clearly that points out that even with its improved BS of 3 its not something that can be considered the highest priority target because of how much damage can be inflicted on it.

LordLink said:
All these infiltrating and flying and leaping units can make the objectives pretty fast and quickly swarm over the long fangs.
And if they make it to the space wolf deployment to fast then they get their before allowing their enemy to get out of the way and have to fight them before completely claiming the objective. I don't know about everyone else but eight grey hunters with a wolf lord and rune priest definately sounds like something for the smaller nids to try and not to run into.

Even given the charge for the deadliest squad of gaunts they only kill 1.6/1.7 marines while taking 5.6 wounds from the lord and priest alone. Then there is of course the 7.34 wounds caused by the grey hunters who struck at the same time and acted as a shield for the power fist wolf.

The deadliest swarm of nids gets cut down by the deadliest squad of wolves and then being outnumbered about 3/4 to one means they suffer just about enough wounds to be completely wiped out. (and this was when they charged too.)

I'm voting for the space wolves, not as much because they can beat a way through all the nids and get to the deployment zone but because they can cause enough damage over six turns to deny the tyranids from getting any units from doing the same.

(The moment those genestealers and broodlord with retinue come into sight they are going to have the heavy bolters, dreadnought, and landspeeder pointed at them until one sides units are completely wiped out.
 
#13 ·
Bugs and Orks, between three fex's why would the long fangs bother firing at the one they can do the least to?
Because the only Fex the Fangs with missle launchers can effectively hurt is an Elite Choice (Both Heavy Fexes have 2+ saves and 5 wounds each), which means it deloys long after the Fangs have been placed so can quite easily stay out of LoS of this one static squad, while it waits for the other wolf squads to get close.

In fact the only things the Long Fangs could guarentee they have LoS to, Heavy fexes or zoanthropes, all have 2+ saves.
 
#14 · (Edited)
The of of the deciding factors here to me is whether the long fangs can take down the caris. In one turn, the lascannons can probably give one wound and the missle launchers will be pressed to even give one wound. 4 shots= 2.666666666 hits, = 1.7777777777 wounds = .2929292 failed armor saves.

The real debate though is how the tyranids will destroy transports. Without those, the spacewolves are very slow. Nids have a sniper fex, fly tyrant, stealers, and thorpes.

The thing that I don't like here is that the space wolves one seems like a more solid list while much of the nid list seems fragile and easily killed compared to the staying power of the SWs. Still, with 4 mcs and 90 something models (twice as much as the sws), I think nids may win.
 
#15 ·
The nids have more little models, but once in combat they get torn apart quickly unless they get the charge or get help. (Except whichever gaunt squad charges the big grey hunter squad, nothing save the mostrous creatures and genestealers has the fighting power to outlast them in drawn out combat.)
 
#16 ·
Well, its been a long time since I've played space wolves(over a year, in fact)
but I think the the puppies wouldn't be able to pull this one out.. just.

One squad of scouts would come INTO the deployment zone by (working behind enemy lines)
and there are transports. The meanwhile fangs could cover the home deployment zone.

The problem comes from the TMCs who would just punish the wolves with impunity. There just aren't enough powerfists there.
If there were, say. a pair of bloodclaw packs in rhinos, I think that would be a completely different story, they would turn the TMCs to goo before the tyranids knew what was happening to them.

Tyranids for the win.
 
#17 ·
Thats true Yak, the wolves are pretty screwed vs most of the TMC's; but three of those four are very slow compared to the rest of the nid army and may come in to late to help in some of the combats or get close only to have the wolves huddle back in their transports and zoom off. (Assuming some of the two smaller squads are alive long enough for that; they are out for the entire game if the get charged by a unit like the spinefist gaunts.)

Between all four TMC's the space wolves would be aiming their guns at the tyrant before any of the other three (which I can only assume we would all agree is a pretty big threat for the wolves), and if anything the large grey hunter pack would aim to get into combat with the elite fex. (Causing a total of 4.55 wounds and recieving 1.2 wounds in return.)

It may just be me but I wouldn't focus my attention on the units I couldn't do anything against, especially not when I'm faster then they are thanks to transports. That cc fex is deadly if it gets into combat, but its slow and up against an enemy thats mounted in faster moving vehicles. The shooty fex has one gun that can outright destroy those vehicles, and it still only has a .083/.252 chance of doing anything while its other gun stands a .83 chance of causing any damage at all.

Biggest threats of the tyranids comes from the thropes, broodlord, the cc fex, and flyrant of which the flyrant can go down to one to two turns of heavy weapons fire given LOS, the broodlord and retinue have to hug cover or face death by heavy bolter and assault cannon, and the thropes I have nothing to counter because they would most likely be stuck near the gaunts and could do nothing if they were in combat. Like I said before as well, the cc fex is slow and easy to get away from unless bogged down for four or five rounds of combat. (which is the case of either small pack if the get assaulted by a unit like the spinegaunts.)
 
#18 ·
I know what you mean, and I see your point, but you can't always avoid the threats.
Only one of the big superfexes have ranged, but those weapons are so annoying against transports, they always glance, and it has 2 chances to pop it or immobilize it. That's pretty decent odds. I think its enough to make enough of the force be footslogging by turn 3 to make a difference in the wolves mobility.

I used to play mechanized wolves and the only thing that saved me from the 'zilla list was the fact that I had over 10 powerfists in the army and 4 transports to take turns covering eachother on the drive up.
 
#19 ·
Only one of the big superfexes have ranged, but those weapons are so annoying against transports, they always glance, and it has 2 chances to pop it or immobilize it. That's pretty decent odds. I think its enough to make enough of the force be footslogging by turn 3 to make a difference in the wolves mobility.
True, but as I've been saying there is more than one way to win this mission. Just because the wolves have lost their vehicles does not mean they lose all of their movement and can still stay away from the cc fex by letting the faster portions of the nid army come in first and engage them in assault. In that way the fex has less of a chance of finding an opening in those combats and is again avoided more or less.

Also wouldn't it take at least two turns to ensure that each transport is either destroyed or immobilised? (The venom cannon shots only stand a .14 chance of destroying or immobilising the transports. Combined with the barbed strangler each time the fex fires it stands under a .5 chance of stopping it completely.)
 
#20 ·
Space Wolves


i agree with reaver's points. the wolf army is faster and can deny many of the squads from making it to their side.
 
#21 ·
Now if only one more person voted space wolves and things were tied for another power vote decision...8)
 
#24 ·
I actually found that to be something between ironic and funny; though I definately think its time to stop posting here unless its for more votes or arguements over possibilities/points.
 
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