Mixed Votewar: Round 2, Battle 6 GK/Tau vs GK/Khorne - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    228 (x8)

    Mixed Votewar: Round 2, Battle 6 GK/Tau vs GK/Khorne

    Mission: Gamma Recon

    Special Rules: infiltrate, deep-strike, victory points, dusk




    Daemonhunters and Tau

    Grey Knight Brother-Captain
    -Psycannon

    Shas'el
    -Plasma Rifle, Missle Pod, Targeting Array, Hard-wired Multi-tracker

    Shas'ui (Team Leader)
    -Twin-linked Missle Pod, Targeting Array, Hard-wired target lock
    Shas'ui
    -Twin-linked Missle Pod, Targeting Array

    Grey Knight Justicar
    (7x) PA Grey Knights

    Grey Knight Justicar
    (7x) PA Grey Knights

    Grey Knights Justicar
    (7x) FA Grey Knights

    Grey Knights Justicar
    (7x) FA Grey Knights

    Hammerhead Gunship
    -Railgun, Smart Missle System, Decoys, Multi-tracker, Target lock

    Hammerhead Gunship
    -Railgun, Smart Missle System, Decoys, Multi-tracker, Target lock

    Hammerhead Gunship
    -Railgun, Smart Missle System, Decoys, Multi-tracker, Target lock



    Grey Knights and World Eaters

    HQ
    Bloodthirster

    Troops
    9 Grey Knights (rides the Chaos Land Raider)
    Justicar

    7 Khorne Berserkers /w khornate chainaxes (rides the Grey Knight Land Raider)
    Aspiring Champion /w daemonic chains

    6 Bloodletters

    Fast Attack
    9 Grey Knights (teleport)
    Justicar /w targeter

    Heavy Support
    Chaos Land Raider

    Grey Knight Land Raider

    Chaos Dreadnought /w additional close combat weapon, extra armour, mutated hull, smoke launchers, destroyer, searchlight


    Grey Knights:
    Protected from psychic powers (similar to psychic hood when targeted).
    Must use a worse kind of night fight when shooting at them.
    Have storm bolters (can move in any direction and shoot, even backwards)
    Have 2 S6 attacks each in cc whether charging or not. Justicar also ignores saves.
    Screw up daemons.
    Can assault out the Land Raider.

    Chaos:
    3 guesses who the daemonhost is…
    Daemons can appear, move and charge in the same turn.
    Berserker squad carries an icon, Bloodthirster counts as an icon.
    Can assault out the Land Raider.
    Even if the host dies the Bloodthirster still arrives.
    Bloodletters have a S5 power weapon in close combat.

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  3. #2
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    228 (x8)

    Just wanted to put some maths in the air:

    3 railguns at a land raider-2 hit-1 penetrates-0.5 dead

    4 twin-linked lascannon shots-2.66 hit-3.55 actually hit-1.77 glance, I'm not sure what kind of damage this deals cos I'm not going into decoy launcher maths and the like. It's 0.3 destroyed but thats without factoring in crashing on immobilised.

    3 railguns at a bloodthirster-2 hit-1.66 wound-0.83 unsaved [4 wounds on a thirster]
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  4. #3
    LO Zealot Spector's Avatar
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    131 (x5)

    DH/Tau

    Well isn't this an interesting fight. I think the DH/Tau team has the edge, but just barely. They have more anti-tank power, and once those LR's are gone (end of turn 2) The bloodthirster is going to get shot to bits. Meanwhile the fire support of the suits mixed with GK in CC wins the day.

    Fluff Vote goes to: GK/Tau. Since GK are uncorruptable to Chaos, the GK must have a plan in mind, since no GK would fight another GK. So, the GK must be using the Khorne in order to lure them into a trap spelling their ultimate demise.

    Either way, the GK win, Chaos loses. .

  5. #4
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    228 (x8)

    Grey Knights and Khorne

    No fluff votes in this one.

    Whats going to shoot up the bloodthirster? odds are it won't even appear until the berserkers are getting close. And then its still got its wings to get it into cc.

    Railguns are going to be distracted by the Land Raiders and even then the bloodthirsters 4++ save helps heaps against them.

    Storm Bolters are not good against a flying T6 3+ save monster...

    And the tau still have to take out the dread some time, it has smoke and mutated hull so thats not easy.

    Bloodthirster vs 8 Grey Knights [not counting either side as charging although the thirster does possess and fly...]

    5 attacks-4.166 hit-3.472 kills
    16 attacks-8 hit-4 wound-1.333 wounds on thirster

    And the thirster counts as 10 models in cc, GK hate no retreat.

    Sorry Spector but you've made me argue with you. Now I have to vote GK/Khorne. The hammerhead/land raider gunfight could go either way as both have powerful anti-tank weapons (4 twin-lascannons vs 3 railguns) and khorne outstrips the tau/GK in cc. Storm Bolters can shoot up crisis suits as they advance towards cc, 10 man squads beat 8 man squads most of the time after all. And the Dread will kill anything it hits, moves faster a lot of the time thanks to destroyer. Bloodletters too.

    In the end I think the land raider/hammerhead war here will only really affect that area of the game, in all other aspects the tau/GK are dominated by khorne. (PS: those crisis suits only have missile pods, they'll just bounce off the Khorne/GK armour).
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  6. #5
    LO Zealot Spector's Avatar
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    131 (x5)

    The Bloodletters aren't going to last long. Psycannon shots will rip through them. Yes there is only 1, but it will thin them down in a turn or 2. True, the Bloodthrister might make quick work of an 8 man GK squad, but when you have 4 squads fighting him the odds are a bit different.

    Besides, the DH/Tau list is packing more than enough firepower (SMS, Submunition on Railgun if LoS to LRs is blocked, psycannon, Missle Pods, 32 Storm Bolters) to serverly thin out the GK/Chaos ranks. While they may have more problems with with the Bloodthirster, he won't be too much trouble if he is the only thing left on the Chaos side! Besides, he's an IC if memory serves, and doesn't even count for a scoring unit...Lets not stray from the objective here!

    Also, don't forget this is recon. The GK/Tau army has a potentially 5 units that can deep strike into the enemy's deployment zone. The HH are faster than the LRs, and can still fire while moving 12" (something the LR's can't do). So the entire time the HH are zipping across the board, peppering Chaos/GK units as they go, the LR's are going to either have to creep across while firing one offensive weapon at a time, or move 12" without firing anything.
    Last edited by Spector; June 26th, 2007 at 16:20.

  7. #6
    Senior Member xrix1's Avatar
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    62 (x2)

    GK/Tau

    The Bloodletters and the Bloodthirster both have powerarmour saves on top of their invulnerable saves, so psi cannon is just a better HB here.

    I think this one is in the air still... but I'm leaning GK/Tau.

    The Hammer head/LR fight is a close one, but I think the Hammerheads have the tactical advantage. The LRs have two goals here, to deal with the opponents tanks, and to transport their loads up the table, while the HHs only have to attack the LRs. If the LRs drive slowly so they can fire, then they won't be doing a good job of delivering their cargo, while if they speed up the table, they won't be traiding shots with the HHs.

    I think the biggest threat to the Tau/GK force is the Bloodthirster, but if it takes a wound or two on the way in, and it isn't fighting one unit of GKs, but 2-4 of them, then they might be able to deal with it.
    Last edited by xrix1; June 27th, 2007 at 18:16. Reason: Voting

  8. #7
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    228 (x8)

    Land Raiders and Hammerheads are the same speed. It's just hammerheads can move the full 12" and still shoot.

    Bloodthirster fighting 4 GK squads? why don't we have a look at the bloodletters, berserkers and GK on the bloodthirsters side? And the dreadnought if it makes it.

    And now why do the land raiders really have to be used as transports? they can walk along the board without the raiders and apart from the railgun there is only 1 low ap weapon in the GK/Tau army. Also if the bloodthirster arrives before the bloodletters (a reasonable chance) he can fly forwards and drop bloodletters right on top of the enemy.

    Everything in the GK/Khorne army has a 3+ armour save. Only the shas'el can penetrate their armour (apart from the railguns but they'll be busy).

    So its not as though the land raiders are really vital in this game, so even if the hammerheads do take them out khorne/GK still has a good chance of winning. Whereas if the land raiders beat the hammerheads then GK/Tau is screwed.
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  9. #8
    LO Zealot Ironangel256's Avatar
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    291 (x6)

    GK / Khorne

    It would be very close but I have to go with the GK / khorne here as I think they have the staying power to reach CC with the tau / DH. Once the zerkers + letters + thirster reach their lines it's over.
    IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!

    I survived LO Chat thanks to: Karmoon, Rabbit, Process, Tossy and Meish.

  10. #9
    LO Zealot Spector's Avatar
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    131 (x5)

    Lets not forget this isn't Seek and Destroy, but Recon. Everyone seems to be ignoring that factor of the mission. All I've seen so far is "Zomg wow...Khorne rules CC." No one seems to be focusing on the mission objective here. If no one is going to take this into account, then yes, its unlikely that the DH/Tau list would win a straight up CC fest, its not what the list was designed for.

    @ Ironangel: First off, who even said the DH/Tau list are going to try to CC the Bloodthirster in the first place. Yes, eventually the Bloodthirster will catch the GK and get into CC because of the fact that it is flying. However, I don't see it lasting more than one round of CC vs. up to 66 GK attacks back @ S6, 12 of which are power weapon attacks. The GK won't play stupid and spread out, they will stick together and mob that bloodthrister when it reaches them. Also, I likely see the Bloodthrister reaching combat without the aid of the Khorne player's GK. The GK can't move as fast as the bloodthirster and won't be able to reach CC if the DH/Tau player doesn't allow them to. The only way I see units in the 2 LR's reaching CC is if the Khorne player doesn't shoot with them and decides to move them 12" a turn. If he does this, then he is inviting the HH's to take pot shots at him. The Strength of the Khorne list is CC, which is also its weakness. It must get its units into CC to flourish. The DH/Tau list has a much more balanced approach. Its weaker in CC, but not by that much. However, it is much more mobile than the Khorne list, as it can stay on the move and fire all its weapons all the time. Also, they can outshoot the Khorne list hands down, which will thin out enough units that even if Khorne does some damage in CC, the bonus the DH/Tau list will get from the Recon bonus's (plan on @least 4-5 units getting to the recon zone @ full strength so about 600-850 bonus VP @least) will carry the day for them.

    Also like I stated before, the DH/Tau anti-infantry firepower is far superior to the GK/Khonre anti-infantry firepower. The SMS on the hammerheads will be blasting something other than the LRs (Target Lock). Up to 64 Storm Bolter shots/turn is nothing to scoff at.

    @ Lord Link: The HH and LR are not the same speed in any aspect that matters. The difference between the LR and the HH's movement is HUGE. If the LR acts as a transport, then its biggest concern is getting troops into CC. It will be moving either 6" a turn and firing only 1 Lascannon at a decent BS or moving 12" and turn and firing 0 Lascannons. This is huge difference from being able to sit still and fire 3 Lascannon shots per turn. However the HH's can move 12" and still fire every weapon they have. This not only allows them much more flexiblity in the fight, but it also lets them easily reach the enemy deploy zone and count as extra VP as per the recon gamma level rules.

  11. #10
    Member spictacular's Avatar
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    6 (x1)

    GK/Tau

    The Land Raiders have one of two choices sit and shoot or get troops across the field. If it tries both then it defeats its own purpose, doing both poorly. With 3 Hammerheads across the field, the likely answer will be letting the boys footslog there way to the fight. This leaves more infantry on the field to be targeted. There are only 13 models that need to be killed by the GK/Tau side. Getting that Bloodthirster out early should be the focus for the GK/Tau force. Once he is on the table then he is everyone's primary target. Four wounds won't be enough if everything is shooing at the Thirster.

    Ultimately the Land Raider/Hammerhead shoot out will mean little as the only reason they are shooing at eachother is to keep them from shooting at anything else. The loser in that fight is likely the Land Raider. They either sit and shoot losing their value as scoring units, push forward and lose their ability to keep the Hammerheads out of the rest of the fight, or run and gun, which will mean that they get less shots, but may be able to make it to the opposition's side.

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