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I was just in a battle where I had my Heavy Destroyers (jet bike) behind a hill, which would be at least size 2. The enemy claimed that they could be seen by his land raider because they were flying, but I said they could not, as they were not in the terrain, thus hover over it, but instead behind it, but I couldn't find anything in the rules to say one way or the other, so I let him shoot. Now, with more time to read thru the LoS rules, the Jet bike rules and skimmer rules, I can't find anything that would let the enemy see my jet bikes behind the hill.
Does any one know which claim is correct? I am pretty sure I got cheated out of my cover, but maybe I'm wrong...
You are correct, dude. Jetbikes are only "flying" when you opt to hover them over terrain instead of risking the dangerous terrain test to go inside it. As in your situation, if they are behind the terrain, then they are exactly that, and therefore no LoS.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes
"a hill" isn't enough information to make a ruling. Did the LR have true physical line of sight to the destroyers? Unless it has a forest or some ruins or something modeled on top of it, there's no reason a hill would normally be considered area terrain. If you didn't class it as size three AT before the game, then true line of sight is used. If the target can be seen using true line of sight from the gun mounts on the land raider, it can be fired on.
It's possible that he still would have had LOS on you with his Land Raider, but not for the reasons he stated. As wyrm said, the Jetbikes actually have to be hovering over the terrain to have the enemy ignore it for LOS purposes in most cases.
However, if the hill or other terrain was size 2, it would only hide the Jetbikes (which are size 2) from other size 2 and below models. The Land Raider is a size 3 vehicle, so can see over (and be seen over) size 2 terrain.
Make sure to clarify with your opponent before the game as to what terrain counts as what size.
A hill is as high as the model used to depict it. Page 17 BGB.
A unit can’t draw a bead on their target if there is a hill in the way. And you use the models eye view to achieve LOS. Page 20 BGB.
All this is not for area terrain, which I am assuming that the hill isn’t.
So to me you were robbed if there was no model eye line of sight.
P.S. The ruling you are after doesn't concern soley Skimmers or Jetbikes but the classification of the interviening terrain and since all you have stated is a "Hill" that means to me you use model eye view.
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
Usually hills are used as size 2, so unless you specify differently before the game id say this is perfectly fine,and the LR was fine to shoot as it is a size 3 tank.
As far as im aware there is nothing which allows you to 'fly' or 'lower' with jetbikes to deny/give LoS, they just count as a size 2 model which happen to hover off the ground.
Also using a model's point of view can be a bit dodgy imo for over things like hills, as terrain is just a basic representation of what it is really like on the battlefield.
A hill usually uses LoS, as WickyWacky said- that's how I play it. They usually have inclined sides to allow for LoS, but it's unusual for a tank to see over/through a hill, unless it's defined as Area Terrain before you play and the whole 'Size' thing comes into effect.
Bottom line, sounds like you were jipped, but it's hard to be certain ) But as long as you had fun, eh? And you can only get better Chief-you'll learn for next time
LO RULESOriginally Posted by Jaffar_Hasad
A unit which is the *same height* as the hill cannot draw an LOS through it. A model which is bigger than the hill can shoot at something on the other side as it has clear LOS. (P.7 BGB, last sentence on the page).
The rule on P.20 BGB about using a model's eye view to determine LOS is only for the specific occasions involving Vehicles, Wrecks, Monstrous Creatures and Artillery. It does not come into the situation we are discussing here about Terrain and Model Heights.
Also, regarding whether the OP would have been entitled to a cover save: P.7 BGB states that a *clear* LOS exists if a taller model is shooting at a smaller model over a smaller rated piece of terrain/model, as in the cited case here. If the LOS is "clear", it follows that there isn't any obstruction (see P.25 BGB under "When do models count as in cover?") to allow a Cover save, so I would doubt that the Necron models would have been entitled to a cover save from the Land Raider.
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"
Heres a similar question on skimmer movement and disembarkation. I didn't want to start another thread on this question so here goes.
Can a skimmer transport: opt to hover over terrin (to avoid the check) and disembark its troops onto the ground?
A few weeks ago, an oponent of mine tried to say that his DE raider zipped up, hovered OVER the terrain, and disembarked the troops onto the ground level so they could assault my guys. I said that if you are going to disembark to ground level, then the skimmer has to be on ground level(especially since disembarkation is 2'', and hence cannot reach the ground).
W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!