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  1. #1
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    Hi, Powerfists/high STR attacks and Instakilling

    This may have been brought up before, but I did a search and found no concrete answers to the question I have in mind. Thus I am sorry if I am repeating a question asked elsewhere.

    The question is
    (Using a marine w/powerfist as an example, since it was brought up while playing black templars)

    A Space Marine (assault) squad, including a model with a powerfist assaults my Tau HQ..

    Now my HQ was three crisis suits, the commander(Shas'O) and two "body guards" (Shas'Vre)

    Between them, my hq had 10 wounds, BUT there are only three models, now comes the big "??"....

    The model with the powerfist (within 2inches of another assault marine in B2 makes his three attacks, all hits, and all wounds. does this mean that I loose my entire 10 wound hq (as per instakill), three instakilling attacks hit, logically we asumed that all three models would bite the dust (and they did...)

    To me this seems a little bit overpowered ? have we missed something vitaly important ?

    It kinda bugged me as all his other assault chaps only managed one wound (lucky dice )

    If this is true, then high str CC attacks are super deadly VS multi wound units, other examples would include tyranid warriors, would all nine of my multiwound warriors die, if hit by nine double thoughness attacks? again, logic seems to indicate that they do...

    Thanks for any wise counsil on this

    Last edited by Valthonis; August 23rd, 2007 at 21:49.

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  3. #2
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    The first thing is: were any of the Marines in actual BtB contact with the Shas'O? If not, then he cannot be attacked, nor can he attack back in this combat.

    For a Character to attack or be attacked in Close Combat, they have to be in BtB contact. If one of the Assault Marines fulfilled this criterium, then all models within 2" of that Marine may direct their attacks onto the Character. However, since Independent Characters are always treated as a separate unit in CC, the attacks on him could only wound HIM and not his Bodyguards. To wipe out this unit, you would have needed to have two powerfists to achieve it through Instant Kills, or have the PF wallop either the Shas'O or the Bodyguard and have the rest of the Marine unit wound with a) lots of ordinary attacks or b) with other power weapon attacks thus causing (perhaps Torrent of Blows - P.41 BGB "Armour Saves, lines 6-end of paragraph - and) too many saves to make!

    Either way: yes, it is feasible to kill a Shas'O and his Bodyguards at one go, but P.51 BGB "The Assault Phase" paragraph has to be applied carefully.

    E.
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  4. #3
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    579 (x8)

    Im not positive, but i think yes, they will all die. With shooting if a multi model multi wound unit (i.e ncron scarab swarms) takes multiple instant kill shots, then one swarm dies per shot. I would say it is the same in combat. Although im not sure if he would need to allocate attacks against specific moels or not.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceiver View Post
    Although im not sure if he would need to allocate attacks against specific moels or not.
    Since Independent Characters are considered to be essentially their own separate unit in close combat, the Power-Fist-toting model would have to allocate his attacks against either the IC, or the retinue. Thus any wounds in excess of those needed to kill the unit he is fighting are lost.

    Eiglepulper has it right on.

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  6. #5
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valthonis View Post
    Now my HQ was three crisis suits, the commander(Shas'O) and two "body guards" (Shas'Vre)

    Between them, my hq had 10 wounds, BUT there are only three models, now comes the big "??"....

    The model with the powerfist (within 2inches of another assault marine in B2 makes his three attacks, all hits, and all wounds. does this mean that I loose my entire 10 wound hq (as per instakill), three instakilling attacks hit, logically we asumed that all three models would bite the dust (and they did...)

    To me this seems a little bit overpowered ? have we missed something vitaly important ?

    It kinda bugged me as all his other assault chaps only managed one wound (lucky dice )

    If this is true, then high str CC attacks are super deadly VS multi wound units, other examples would include tyranid warriors, would all nine of my multiwound warriors die, if hit by nine double thoughness attacks? again, logic seems to indicate that they do...

    Thanks for any wise counsil on this
    1-IC's may only be attack/attack by models in btb with them or within 2" of models of a model in btb from the same squad.

    2-because powerfists go last in assault, it is an effective method of shutting them down, by simply removing any models in btb that are eligible targets (models that are in btb or within2" of a model in btb with the PF or a member of his squad that he is in).

    3-yes, powerfists are deadly in CC against multiwound models

    4-no-not so good against tyranids since tyranid multiwound models can't be instakilled while within synapse (see nid faq), meaning never on warriors. Mind you, force weapons still work just fine, but they can only affect one model per turn.

    hope that answers your questions.
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
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  7. #6
    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valthonis View Post

    If this is true, then high str CC attacks are super deadly VS multi wound units, other examples would include tyranid warriors, would all nine of my multiwound warriors die, if hit by nine double thoughness attacks? again, logic seems to indicate that they do...
    No... Tyranid Warriors provide their own Synapse, which protects Tyranids from Instant Death. Them nifty little buggers...

    But your logic is correct for almost any other example. (Say, the "old" Thousand Sons that had two wounds, or Necron Scarab Swarms.)
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
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  8. #7
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    Have i missed something, everyone is going on about IC's. The guy with the fist in the original post was not stated to be an IC though.

  9. #8
    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceiver View Post
    Have i missed something, everyone is going on about IC's. The guy with the fist in the original post was not stated to be an IC though.
    I think they were just clarifying, in case the fist was more than 2" from a guy basing the Shas'O.

    Edit: Also, the guy mentioned all three fist attacks killing the whole squad, when the fist could only either hit the Shas'O OR the Shas'vre.
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceiver View Post
    Have i missed something, everyone is going on about IC's. The guy with the fist in the original post was not stated to be an IC though.
    He may not be, but the Shas'O is and that's what the problem is as he's a separate unit in CC.


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  11. #10
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    Ahh ok, so then its simple surely, just the bodyguards die unless the Shas'o is in base to base with the unit then he dies too.

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