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Ok, this may have been covered in here somewhere before, but I was unable to find it.
My group of friends have been arguing about what saves and what doesn't as far as automatic wounds/killing/etc. goes.
For example let's take an assault cannon shooting at a squad of terminators. Any rending hits wound automatically with no armor save possible. Of course that would automatically negate their 2+ save, but what about their 5+ invul save?
Invulnerable Save and Armor Save are specially defined rules terms, as indicated by the way they are always capitalised in the rule book. Rending says it negates Armor Saves, so Invulnerable Saves and Cover Saves may still be used.
yeah, thats exactly what I said and I've been playing the game for quite a long time. But when my friends challenged me on the rules, despite how sure I thought I was, they still made me doubt myself. Anyway, thanks. At least it's in writing here. Now I can show this to them and yell at them for being wrong and doubting me.
from page 25 in the BGB it indeed says that sometimes a creature will have more than one save and I quote from under the heading of Invulnerable Saves "Models like these are called invulnerable, and always get their Saving throw even if the armour Piercing value of the weapons hitting them would normally defeat their armour."
Note well the use of the word "always" in that quote, so you would use only one save that gives you the best chance of survival.
So in your example the 5+ invulnerable save is the logical and legal choice to use against rending hits.
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
oh the simplicity of it!
and then apocalypse trudges solemly onto the scene and defeats some wonderfully simple things.
still who am i to complain! bring back the wonderfully simple complexity of second edition, where there rules where more like a set of guidelines...
Dear Game Developer,Caps-Lock, its like cruise-control for AWESOMENESS!
Rock is cheese, Paper is just fine
WWP and other Dark Eldar how to
You want to shoot at a model with an armor save and an invulnerable save and a cover save. You shoot the following: A bolter, A flamer, an assault cannon (that rolls a 6), a plasma gun, and a lascannon.
The bolter: the model uses the armor save, unless one of the other two is better
The flamer: Use the armor save unless the inv is better. You can't use a cover save against a template attack
The AsC: can't use armor against a rending hit, but you still get your invulnerable save or cover save
The plasma gun: You would take your inv save or your cover save since the armor piercing quality of the plasma gun negates the armor save
The lascannon- you take either the inv save or the cover save, if you fail either, any model that has the same toughness as a Marine dies due to instant death.
If I missed any situations, let me know and I hope I am not violated the TOS
When in doubt call in an ordnance strike.