Are rooftop models immune to assault? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Are rooftop models immune to assault?

    Hi,

    I have been reading a few of the buildings-, hills-, and coherency threads on this forum that deals with the difficulties that turns up when one uses elevated terrain of any sort. I couldnt find much talk about assaulting in these features though, so here goes...

    The background for this question is a situation that turned up last night. He had some space marines that had reached the top of a 3.5" tall building. In my first try to assault them (I had nids) there were only room for one of my models to actually stand on the roof. We then agreed that if I could only get one model up there, I would loose coherency and thus I couldnt assault (the other models in the brood would have to be left at ground level 3.5" away vertically).

    My first question is: Was this correct? Or could you disregard the vertical distance?

    As I failed to assault him the first time he moved his squadmembers so that they were all standing next to the edge of the roof. Now I couldnt get any of my models up there since there wasnt any room. I. e. he had become immune to assault! I didnt mind it since I was winning big anyway but for the next time...

    So my second question is: How do you people deal with this kind of situations when assaulting across different levels of terrain?

    Cheers!


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    Senior Member Jakester's Avatar
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    I did a quick check in the Cities of Death codex (great little thing to have when you have lots of terrain), and according to it, your units are in coherency if the base of the model elevated is within 2 inches of the head of a model on the ground.

    Which means that unless you were assaulting him with ripper swarms, I believe you had enough coherency to have one model on top in the assault, and the rest on the ground doing nothing.

    A properly designed building (small ones that is) allow for a unit to be spread across multiple levels without losing coherency. Hopefully this helps you out!
    I play my 40k with friendly fire.
    Finally fixed the link!

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    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    Jakester fell into the first trap.

    1. are you playing a CoD game or a normal game?

    If you are playing the Normal game, then the verticle distance makes no difference since the building counts as area terrain, you do not expand movement to go up or down
    (CAVEAT: it is not uncommon to agree rules for unusual terrain, eg buildings before the battle which may contravene this)

    IF you are playing CoD then as per CoD rules
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


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    We normally play the normal rules. But since they seem to completely lack support for elevated positions we need to either not play with rooftops, walls, hills etc or either try to make some rules/ use CoD. And yes, it is clear that these things need to be worked out before the game starts.

    So by the normal rules vertical do not count?

    ______D
    ..........|
    ..........|
    ..........|A________

    In that case the attacker standing on the ground at (A) in the drawing above would be base-to-base with the defender (D) on the rooftop and thus able to fight CC? Dotted thing is the building.

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    Knight-Champion chrispcarter's Avatar
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    Hi Rippars, I'll try to throw some assistance in here.

    To answer your question, no - for models to be in an assault they need to physically be in base to base contact. However if your one model was on the roof in base-to-base it would be able to fight, as would any supporting it from 2" away (coherency rules) - even if they are on a different level.

    you always have to have at least 1 model in direct base-to-base to successfully assault.

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    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rippars View Post
    We normally play the normal rules. But since they seem to completely lack support for elevated positions we need to either not play with rooftops, walls, hills etc or either try to make some rules/ use CoD. And yes, it is clear that these things need to be worked out before the game starts.

    So by the normal rules vertical do not count?

    ______D
    ..........|
    ..........|
    ..........|A________

    In that case the attacker standing on the ground at (A) in the drawing above would be base-to-base with the defender (D) on the rooftop and thus able to fight CC? Dotted thing is the building.
    Indeed. Same reason a blast/templete hits all models on all levels.

    Mind you CoD is very different in these respects, so check there if you are playing CoD.

    But by standard rules, AT makes no distiction for height, only terrain does. So a hill that has a 2" wall and was classed as difficult terrain, if you rolled two 1's, you couldn't move up the wall. AT would ignore the wall and you would move the 1", putting you at the top.
    My armies:
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    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    This is exactly why both players should agree on a set of terrain rules for the board(i.e. cover save values, effects of height, if terrain is classified as "area",etc.) before starting a game.
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
    ---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrispcarter View Post
    To answer your question, no - for models to be in an assault they need to physically be in base to base contact. [...] you always have to have at least 1 model in direct base-to-base to successfully assault.
    Quote Originally Posted by tarzen View Post
    Indeed. Same reason a blast/templete hits all models on all levels.
    Mixed messages here if I have understood things correctly. "chrispcarter" thinks the bottom model cant assault. "tarzen" thinks they can. Or did you mean that the bottom model can assault only if the building is classified as Area Terrain?

    In any case, the original rules seem to suck bigtime. We need a better set of "3D-rules". Maybe Cities of Death is the way to go, I dont have it so I dont know.

    As a sidenote. After playing Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game, I must say that this game is much better in dealing with terrain. Of course it is a little bit more involved since everything is basically WYSIWYG, but it works so much better. In WH40K you never have any intuitive feeling about what effect certain terrain pieces will have. Like, "It seems very far for those space-marines to move to and climb up that building, they wont make it. Oh, thats right, they get 6" sideways AND 6" vertical. And now they’re up. Blasting away. Immune to assault." ...

    Cheers

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    Unless you are playing with CoD rules, this has to be worked out between you and the other player. This gets into the FAQ at many GTs. They mostly go with the two inch from head to base rule and you can assault to a level you can't get any models on because all the space is taken. There are cases when you can get into CC without being in B2B. Look at it this way, if your guys charge a unit that is behind a 1mm thick wall, they get into CC, but are not in B2B contact.

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    Son of LO Uzi-99's Avatar
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    An intact building is usually WYSIWYG terrain by GW standards. Something to note is that if the wall is sheer, ie. there are no handholds, ledges etc, then it should be considered vertically impassable. Thus you couldn't assault the unit on the roof unless your models had Flesh Hooks and you made good on all your rolls.

    In this sort of a case, I recommend anticipating it beforehand and having a bunch of bases with blu-tac or similar in order to figure how your models will be scaling the wall/cliff/what-have-you. Also makes it easier to figure which models are BtB and within 2" once they reach the rooftop.

    If the building model could be opened to figure out movement inside, the possibility of assaults should also be discussed before the game. The CoD rules might be applied for this specific piece of terrain.
    "The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all biomatter consumed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be devoured."

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