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  1. #1
    Senior Member Sinjin's Avatar
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    Assigning Wounds

    Question about assigning wounds.

    On Saturday I was playing a Lysander List. I failed 2 saves against Lysander's command squad, which had already taken 2 casualties. So there were 2 assault cannons, and Lysander left in the unit. I wanted to take both wounds on Lysander, as I was playing an Armored Company list, and there were no tanks in range for me to ever get in CC. I was told that I could take one of the wounds on Lysander, but then one of the other wounds had to be assigned to the other terminators. I was pretty sure this was wrong, but as I was winning anyway I didn't really care and didn't want to slow the game down, so I just took out one of the assault cannons.

    My thought was that you only 'assign' wounds before rolling armor saves when your dealing with multiple toughness and/or saves. But since all models had the same toughness, the same save, and there was only 1 model with multiple wounds I could assign wounds however I want.

    What is the right way?

    Thanks.


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  3. #2
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    you would need to remove 2 acannons.

    Mind you, most people don't play by this convention, just as far too many people play with LOS area terrain (shudder).

    1.Rules for removing casaulties say that for each wound, you must remove a model. This assumes single wound models.
    2.Rules for multiwound units says you can't spread wounds to prevent removing models.

    a-since there is no rule stating how to deal with a unit with 1 multiwounder, it still follows normal rules for casaulty removal- 1 wound=1 dead.
    b-if you argue that it follows rule 2, then you must still remove both acannons so as to remove whole models.
    c-by giving the multiwounder a wound, you are breaking both 1 & 2.

    Sorry, same reason that in third ed chaos, the sorcerers died first in 1k sons.

    That all said, if you want to house rule it pregame, by all means, but otherwise expect to lose your retinue before your IC, unless torrent of fire, LOS, range, special rule, or mixed armour cause him to be wounded to the point that 1 wound would kill him too (Instant death weapon).
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  4. #3
    Senior Member Sinjin's Avatar
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    I am familiar with the debate on this, but that does not answer my question.

    Personally, I am in the other camp. the rules you are stating don't apply, as they are only stated as applying to units with MULTIPLE multi-wound models.

    but honestly, lets not get into this debate. Lets assume, if you agree or not, that the above statement is correct.

    How should the situation I descrbed in my original post be handled?

  5. #4
    Suffer not the Unclean InquisitorAffe's Avatar
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    The multi-wounds rule doesn't need to be in effect. If you check the basic casualty removal section it says something along the lines of 'remove a model for each wound,' around the top of the second column if I recall. It's shakey, but if you're at an impasse with an opponent and you can't settle on a house interpretation, it's in the book in ink.

    I've never had a problem with people putting wounds on a character, as long as they let me do it =). However, as Tarzen has cited, there is no basis in the rules for putting two wounds on Lysander. Everything that is available goes against it (one wound per model, remove a model per failed save, remove whole models where possible.)

    Do note, that if the character has an invulnerable save that the squad does not, the mixed armor rule kicks in and it's one wound per model until everyone has one. Even if playing the wounds-where-you-want way, if you take two AP2 shots you can't attempt to save both with the character's invul.
    Last edited by InquisitorAffe; September 24th, 2007 at 20:35.

  6. #5
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    sinjin, not to drudge up anything, but simply put, the way I described it and the rules i cited are the way to do it.

    Short answer-both assaultcannons die, lysander is unharmed.

    slightly longer answer, "all wounding hits are assumed to hit a different model", meaning you couldn't put both on lysander, even if you chose to ignore the other rules I've cited.

    The other nail in the coffin for the "can I put a wound on a single model that won't kill it to prevent one form dying" is you have 2, and only 2 options of how to play it, as cited earlier. #1, meaning one failed save, one model removed. #2, removing as many models as possible. Even if you use #1, just means you can kill lysander with one shot, and then an assault cannon, not the solution you were looking for I'm sure, but rules wise your only other option to removing both termies.
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  7. #6
    Senior Member KhlauKolash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InquisitorAffe View Post
    Do note, that if the character has an invulnerable save that the squad does not, the mixed armor rule kicks in and it's one wound per model until everyone has one. Even if playing the wounds-where-you-want way, if you take two AP2 shots you can't attempt to save both with the character's invul.
    thats not quite how mixed armor rule works.
    example; (assume T4 all around) 2 HITs are struck with AP2 on a Chaplain command squad that has 1 IC w/4+ inv, and 2 termies with 5+ inv. (mixed armor dosen't exactly cover this "inv save" situation but.. ) most players would agree that the 5+ is in majority and so the 2 wounds must be saved vs the 5+ and therefore the wounds are taken by the reg termies.

    example 2; same 2 hits are scored on a command squad with a forcecommander/marshall ect in termie armor. 3 guys all with 5+inv. per the rules allready mentioned the 2 wounds are used to eliminate whole models. but, in a friendly game if this situation arises again, you can explain the grey area and ask your opp if he would rather nix the asscans or put 2 wounds on a IC, or simply roll a D6.

  8. #7
    Too Sexy For My Whirlwind Sabe's Avatar
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    Short Answer: your opponent was right.

    Long answer:You guys don't even need to go into the multi-wound rules....Basic casualty removal is that each model in the unit must make a save before any can make a second save. Hence Lysander couldn't have 2 on him before the other termies had taken at least one. Furthermore you would techn \ically allocate wounds after the dice were rolled as all the modesl had the same saves, so you just roll them and then remove casualities appropriately.
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  9. #8
    Suffer not the Unclean InquisitorAffe's Avatar
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    example; (assume T4 all around) 2 HITs are struck with AP2 on a Chaplain command squad that has 1 IC w/4+ inv, and 2 termies with 5+ inv. (mixed armor dosen't exactly cover this "inv save" situation but.. ) most players would agree that the 5+ is in majority and so the 2 wounds must be saved vs the 5+ and therefore the wounds are taken by the reg termies.
    No but, it's the mixed Armor rule, not the mixed Invulnerable rule =). What it does is clarify that when you have a mismatched invulnerable save among models with the same armor, you can choose if you want to attempt it or not(step 4.)

    It seems kind of counter-intuitive to go there at all when there are no mixed armor saves, but p25 does say to check in the event of a mix of both types. Without it we'd have no answer to the question of can you attempt the chaplain's save in the event, perhaps, that he had already been reduced to one wound in an earlier assault.

  10. #9
    Dark Eldar Gerbil Splata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabe View Post
    Short Answer: your opponent was right.

    Long answer:You guys don't even need to go into the multi-wound rules....Basic casualty removal is that each model in the unit must make a save before any can make a second save. Hence Lysander couldn't have 2 on him before the other termies had taken at least one. Furthermore you would techn \ically allocate wounds after the dice were rolled as all the modesl had the same saves, so you just roll them and then remove casualities appropriately.
    no, the opponent was wrong, both wounds must be placed on units if they may be removed from play. ie. have one wound left(or total).

    the second part of your long answer is correct, all saves are the same, roll all at once, X fail, then X amounts of wounds are allocated with the intention to remove the most amount of models (not taking into account instant death as this is a result of the wound, and is not taken into account for distribution of wounds)
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  11. #10
    Firefly Skarsgard's Avatar
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    tarzen had it nailed in his first post.
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