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  1. #1
    LO Zealot magnet_man's Avatar
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    When does res orb stop?

    I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but the search function is useless for searches with words of 3 or less characters (i.e. orb and res).

    Last night I was playing my necron friend. He had a lord with res orb attached to a squad of immortals with 1 standing and 5 or 6 waiting for WBB rolls. I then shot at the unit again and he failed 3 saves. This gave him the choice of either removing the lone immortal and taking two wounds on the lord or taking all three wounds on the lord and leaving the one immortal standing (either way he is removing whole models when possible).

    Here's the trick, the 5 or 6 immortals waiting for WBB rolls were killed by a demolisher cannon (high strength denies WBB rolls unless res orb is nearby). The only reason they got a chance at a WBB roll is because of the res orb on the lord.

    So if my friend removed the lord would those that were killed by the demolisher cannon get their WBB rolls?

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  3. #2
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    The Lord would always be allowed to make his WBB roll or, depending on what actually caused the last wound, be able to use the Res Orb on himself. Also, Necrons are not officially "killed" until they have failed a WBB roll/WBB enhanced roll from Res Orb. So effectively that Res Orb is I believe still available until the Lord is removed. The Immortals would thus technically be able to use it, although I believe it would be fairer to attempt the WBB for the Necron Lord first.

    I know this is a bit of a "sit on the fence" type of answer, but I've tried to line up "actual" with "fair play". Personally I would always attempt to get the Lord back first before using any Res Orb-enhanced WBB for other units.

    If your friend had removed the Lord, then that would have removed the Orb. So the Immortals would not have received an enhanced WBB, no.

    E.
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    Monkey of Mystery The Paint Monkey's Avatar
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    Hmm.... I'm not sure I agree. There are a few other threads discussing this and the general consensus is that you check if the orb is going to help at the time of death. i.e when the model hits 0 wounds. If there's no orb and the model has been hit by S 2x T- take the model away.

    In this case, if your friend wanted the Immortals back then he should have taken the hits on the Lord. All the Immortals were in range of the orb when they died, allowing a WBB but if the last Immortal died then there would be no Necron of the same type within 6 inches at the beginning of the turn (assuming no TS and what-not). The Orb does not help with there being no-one of the same type!
    No more NG spearmen, thanks! Now I need some pump-wagons!

  5. #4
    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnet_man View Post
    I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but the search function is useless for searches with words of 3 or less characters (i.e. orb and res).

    Last night I was playing my necron friend. He had a lord with res orb attached to a squad of immortals with 1 standing and 5 or 6 waiting for WBB rolls. I then shot at the unit again and he failed 3 saves. This gave him the choice of either removing the lone immortal and taking two wounds on the lord or taking all three wounds on the lord and leaving the one immortal standing (either way he is removing whole models when possible).

    Here's the trick, the 5 or 6 immortals waiting for WBB rolls were killed by a demolisher cannon (high strength denies WBB rolls unless res orb is nearby). The only reason they got a chance at a WBB roll is because of the res orb on the lord.

    So if my friend removed the lord would those that were killed by the demolisher cannon get their WBB rolls?
    A few things:
    1. You cannot opt to take wounds on the Lord. Whole models must be removed first. (BGB pg27) So unless more immortals are within 6", no WBB.
    2. A Necron Lord benefits from his own Res Orb. (top-right of pg13, Necron Codex) This means that the Orb is still active until the Lord is actually removed from the table.
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  6. #5
    LO Zealot magnet_man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psichotykwyrm View Post
    A few things:
    1. You cannot opt to take wounds on the Lord. Whole models must be removed first. (BGB pg27) So unless more immortals are within 6", no WBB.
    Re-read my post. There is an immortal with one wound and a lord with three. With three failed wounds an immortal can be removed OR the lord can be removed because either way a whole model is removed. The only restriction is that a model be removed if possible (doesn't say it has to be a single wound model).

    2. A Necron Lord benefits from his own Res Orb. (top-right of pg13, Necron Codex) This means that the Orb is still active until the Lord is actually removed from the table.
    Yes the lord would get his res orb effect. However, if you read in the faq it says that models that are lying down do not contribute towards phase out or count towards units being above half strength. Basically the implication from the entire faq is that a model that is waiting for WBB does nothing to those that are alive.
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  7. #6
    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psichotykwyrm View Post
    A few things:
    1. You cannot opt to take wounds on the Lord. Whole models must be removed first. (BGB pg27) So unless more immortals are within 6", no WBB.
    Yes you can opt to let your character take the wounds, but once he's taken one wound he has to take the next wounds until he's either a) left the unit or b) dead. p.27 does not indicate that you cannot perform this strategy, it merely says that when a unit contains "serveral multi-wound" creatures, then you must remove whole multi-wound models. Read the entire thing, not just one paragraph or one sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by psichotykwyrm View Post
    2. A Necron Lord benefits from his own Res Orb. (top-right of pg13, Necron Codex) This means that the Orb is still active until the Lord is actually removed from the table.
    This rule is very vaguely explained, so normally me and my friends (and my gaming group at the GW) play this way -- when your lord goes down on the same turn of your other models that got hit by attacks that allow no WBB, always roll the lord's WBB first.. if he passes, the res orb lord stands up and the effect is fully functional extending 6" around him, but if he fails, all models that previously suffered no-WBB hits die along-side with him.
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  8. #7
    for good and for awesome! kore's Avatar
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    Holy crap, read the OP! magnet_man obviously understands the "remove whole models" rule, this is NOT the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by magnet_man View Post
    I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but the search function is useless for searches with words of 3 or less characters (i.e. orb and res).

    Last night I was playing my necron friend. He had a lord with res orb attached to a squad of immortals with 1 standing and 5 or 6 waiting for WBB rolls. I then shot at the unit again and he failed 3 saves. This gave him the choice of either removing the lone immortal and taking two wounds on the lord or taking all three wounds on the lord and leaving the one immortal standing (either way he is removing whole models when possible).

    Here's the trick, the 5 or 6 immortals waiting for WBB rolls were killed by a demolisher cannon (high strength denies WBB rolls unless res orb is nearby). The only reason they got a chance at a WBB roll is because of the res orb on the lord.

    So if my friend removed the lord would those that were killed by the demolisher cannon get their WBB rolls?
    To answer your question, yes, they would get WBB, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. RO effectiveness is determined when any model reaches 0 wounds. Consider them stamped for approval (WB. To answer the title, the RO stops when the Lord holding it is removed from play (see below for details). In fact, if all the Immortals reached 0 wounds and couldn't roll the next player turn because of the "similar type" rule, there are still not removed from play. If there are other Immortals, as it applies to this example, and they wander over 3 turns later and happen to be within 6" at the beginning of the player's turn, those Immortals can still roll WBB.

    Two important things must be understood, both derived directly from the rules:
    1. The criteria for removal of any "Necron" is a failed WBB roll.
    2. The RO instantaneously negates the effects of WBB denying circumstances (2xT==S kills, and Armour Save ignore wounds in CC)

    The next thing to consider is this...

    Quote Originally Posted by magnet_man
    Yes the lord would get his res orb effect. However, if you read in the faq it says that models that are lying down do not contribute towards phase out or count towards units being above half strength. Basically the implication from the entire faq is that a model that is waiting for WBB does nothing to those that are alive.
    I'll need you to reference the paragraph and/or bullet in the FAQ where it says this, perhaps I'm being subconsciously blind to it. That last sentence is adding a completely new idea to the FAQ (I'll demonstrate in the following paragraphs).

    The only two things I see that remotely pertain to this discussion are bullets #1 and #4 under "We'll Be Back!". Bullet 4 is only important for last round discussions and doesn't require any attention. However, I think bullet 1 is the one being misquoted and as one can read, it does refer to anything accept to the fact that "debris" "Necrons" don't count as "same type" models.

    Now attention should be turned to bullet 2 where it explicitly states that "when casualties are suffered assess whether they are in range of the Resurrection Orb." This is the only criteria that has to be met when dealing with 2xT==S kills and Armour Save ignoring wounds.

    Now to address the effectiveness of a RO on downed Lord awaiting his WBB roll on the next turn. One must simply turn their attention to page 13 of Codex Necrons under the heading Necron Lords. As long as it or any other Lord within 6" has a RO he can make his WBB roll regardless of the high Strength or Armour Save ignoring wound. Thus it is concluded that the state of a Lord on the field, whether standing or fallen, has no bearing on his ability to roll WBB using a RO he carries. Therefore the RO is in effect as long as the Lord holding it is on the field. Of course, that will only be one round because a Lord will always get his WBB roll on the very next player turn and failing that would remove him from play.

    Hope this helps everyone.

    Note: I need to add this to the Necron FAQ(linked) (The Frequently Asked Questions about 40K Necrons.) here at LO, this is the third time this type of issue has come up.
    Karmoon: "well.. any kore = good kore" 12:35pm PST 23 May 2007


  9. #8
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    @ Kore: To quote an element I found a little odd:

    "If there are other Immortals, as it applies to this example, and they wander over 3 turns later and happen to be within 6" at the beginning of the player's turn, those Immortals can still roll WBB."

    I was not aware that the Necrons could hang around waiting to be able to perform their WBB trick until the proximity of similar types was fulfilled by those still-living Necrons ambling over at a later stage to their fallen comrades?

    Maybe I have misunderstood what you wrote, so please help me to comprehend if I have taken you up wrongly.

    E.
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  10. #9
    for good and for awesome! kore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eiglepulper View Post
    @ Kore: To quote an element I found a little odd:

    "If there are other Immortals, as it applies to this example, and they wander over 3 turns later and happen to be within 6" at the beginning of the player's turn, those Immortals can still roll WBB."

    I was not aware that the Necrons could hang around waiting to be able to perform their WBB trick until the proximity of similar types was fulfilled by those still-living Necrons ambling over at a later stage to their fallen comrades?

    Maybe I have misunderstood what you wrote, so please help me to comprehend if I have taken you up wrongly.

    E.
    Note: I just want to point out your excellent approach to questioning something I've stated. I fully expect others to have a hard time accepting this position, and whether or not you actually agree with my assertion, I commend you for not making any assumption if I didn't make myself clear (rep).

    Yeah, your interpretation of my statements is correct. Simply, it is based on the understanding that the only "normal" criteria for removal of a downed "Necron" is actually rolling a failed WBB roll. All "Necrons" must make a WBB roll before they are removed from play. There is no rule stating that "Necrons" that don't meet the criteria to roll are removed from play.

    Power weapons and S==2xT is a wholly different issue but is easy enough to understand as the Necron FAQ clearly states ("We'll Be Back! bullet 2) that RO coverage is assessed at the time the model takes its final wound. The RO instantaneously cancels WBB denying affects and WBB functions as normal.
    Karmoon: "well.. any kore = good kore" 12:35pm PST 23 May 2007


  11. #10
    Senior Member necronoob's Avatar
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    This gave him the choice of either removing the lone immortal and taking two wounds on the lord
    Wait, if there is still one immortal on the table within 6" all the immortals would get their wbb roll. If there aren't any than they don't get their wbb rolls having a res orb doesn't change that. So unless they were killed by a strenght 10 weapon than the res orb shouldn't have been a big deal, that is unless I'm missing something.
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