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I used a neural shredder for the first time and now I have some questions about how exactly it works. After performing a search I couldn't find anything so here is my own post.
The wording is too vague in these areas for me to interpret with confidence. Also If anyone wants to add more on how this weapon works so I don't run into future troubles, that would be appreciated.
- Against a unit with mixed LD models does it act as against units with mixed toughness models since the leadership is used rather than the toughness?
- Space marines have an HQ that grants the whole army a LD 10. Does this apply to making wound rolls with a neural shredder? Does the marine HQ grant the models or units LD 10?
The neural shredder works against MODIFIED LD. There is no such thing as different LD's in a unit, because everyone in the unit shares the LD of the highest model. And if there is an HQ around that modifies LD, that the modified value is what is used.
Have to completely disagree with Sinjin on this one =/.
Rules like Rites of Battle allow the unit to use the higher leadership for 'morale and pinning tests' or in some cases the broader 'all leadership tests.' However, nobody is taking any sort of LD test under the effects of the neural shredder. I can't think of anysuch rule off the top of my head other than Culexus assassins and that Nid thing that says it actually alters the LD of the models in the unit. Just that they may use it for Ld tests. (there could of course be some I can't think of, but I'm pretty sure about rites of battle.)
The individual model's LD stat is being used for an entirely different purpose not related to LD tests. Even the rule for upgrade characters just allows their LD to be used for the unit's LD based tests, it doesn't change the LD of an individual model. I would go so far as to agree with the first point, it's being used in place of toughness so the majority rule would come into play in the same manner.
From my understanding it is the models own leadership that counts. As in my codex it says the target uses its Ld instead of its toughness, and in the example it stats that a model with a Ld of 9 would be wounded on a 5+. From this I gather that the models actual Ld is used and that if the models hit have different Ld then you roll to wound for each one.
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When you make a morale check on a unit with Ld8 and Ld9 in it (Tactical Squad with Vet Sgt, for example), you always use the highest Leadership in the squad to count for the squad. The rules for the Shredder on P.28 Codex DH say that the "targets" Ld is used. The UNIT is the target, unless you are specifically picking out a single model, so the normal rules for Leadership value would be used.
In the above example, the Shredder's strength would be compared to the Leadership of 9 for all models in that unit which were covered/touched by the template.
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The character rules on p51 specifically allow the higher value to be used for taking Leadership tests, which are defined on p13 as attempting to roll equal or under LD on 2d6. There is no rule that says the unit 'counts as' having a higher LD for any other purpose. An LD8 model will be wounded by the neural shredder on the appropriate roll regardless of the presence of a sergeant or a commander unless that army has a special rule that says 'models count as having so and so's leadership' rather than 'models may use so and so's leadership for taking tests.'
have to disagree eigle
the rule on p51 says "any Leadership tests the unit takes are then made using the character's leadership value,"
not that the unit gets the characters leadership value.
I say majority toughness with toughness replaced by leadership value of the models.
And as the inquisitor said Rites of Battle only helps for Morale and Pinning tests (not even psychic tests)
edit: and the inquisitor beat me to it by2 minutes.... damn... took too long looking up that page!
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Splata just hit on a very important example there... I look at the shredder as functioning like a psychic test - it's trying to directly fry the target's brains, so they all have to fend for themselves. It's not much use having your commander yelling on the radio if your brain is running out of your ears!!! So much like a psyker has to test with his own brain, so do the shredder's victims.
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