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So the question is, can an ork's leadership go above 10 using their new Mob Rule? There are two rules that kind of contradict each other, one in the BGB and one in the Ork Codex.
BGB, Characteristics section, Page 12, second paragraph, 1st sentence:
"All characteristics are measured on a scale of 0 to 10."
Ork Codex, page 31, "Mob Rule!":
"Ork mobs may always choose to substitute the number of Orks in their mob for their normal Leadership value. If an Ork mob numbers 11 or more models, it has the Fearless special rule."
** Note to Mods, if posting these rules are against forum regulations, I apologize and please edit them out leaving just the page references. Thanks.
So the question becomes, does the Mob Rule override the BGB scale? The codex was written after, true enough, but it doesn't explicitly state that the value can go over 10. Nowhere does it state "this may take your leadership over 10", instead it states you become fearless if you have more than a certain number of orks in the unit.
On the other hand, it does indeed imply that you can have an astronomical leadership if you're in a maximum size Ork Boyz unit. It doesn't state you have to stop at 10, just that you gain benefits for being over that in size.
So would you need express permission to override the BGB rule or just implied permission?
It does matter, too. There are things that being fearless wouldn't help against when having a 15+ leadership would. Namely:
- Target priority
- Psychic tests
- Psychic hood defense
- Mind War defense
- Deceiver's special ability
Just to name a few.
To me, it seems that RAW could be argued either way with it leaning more heavily towards the ability to go past 10 while RAI seem to point to capping at 10. With a few tournaments coming up, I was curious how everyone felt it should work. Thoughts?
The Orks stay at ld10 since it does not allow them to go above it, and the scale is specifically from 0-10 - Codex: Orks does not override the BGB in any way on that point.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
More to the point, Mob Rule says nothing about gaining a Ld greater than 10. It simply, in explicit terms, says that squads of sizes 11 and greater gain Fearless. The rule says nothing about violating the attribute limit, which would be required, in explicit terms, to make any true statement to that effect. In other words, the rule doesn't say "the mobs of greater than 10 models may have a Ld that goes beyond the universal limit" or something similar.
Karmoon: "well.. any kore = good kore" 12:35pm PST 23 May 2007
I've gotten into this argument of number of times before.
Although I usually play the "max 10" rule (unless my opponent is a real jerk) there is nothing in the BGB which explicitly states that a stat is capped at 10. It just says the values go from 1-10.
Here's an example. Take the newest Chaos Codex with the Khorne Lord. He can take a 2h weapon which gives 2D6 attacks. Now Attacks IS a statline. Yet there is no mention that if you roll an 11 or 12 (or 10 +1 for the charge) that you can't have more than 10 Attacks.
If you use the argument "stats are capped at 10" then that would include # of Attacks as that is a statline the same as Ld.
Some argue that it's a "bonus" and not a substitution. Well, if it were a bonus it would be 3+2D6 attacks (I think the Lord as 3 base attacks), not 2D6 attacks (replacement).
And those that say "Well, Attacks are an exception to the rule" then one could just respond, "Show me where." The fact is it ISN'T listed in any book/Codex that Attacks are somehow "special".
But as stated, unless GW issues an FAQ (not holding my breath) here's yet another rule which will be debated until the end of time.
For the Chaos Daemon Weapon, I believe the bonus argument is correct (though I'd have to double-check my codex when I'm not at work). The daemon weapons give you extra attacks, they do not change your profile. After all, lets say someone has 10 attacks on their profile - would you say that they do not get the bonus attack for charging because they'd now have 10+1?
Regardless of the Chaos issue, I'd agree with Rork & kore that Ork leadership is capped at 10.
Ummm I know the Chaos Lord isn't at issue here, but the whole "2D6 attacks is a bonus" argument is correct. you get +2D6 attacks, the 2D6 doesn't replace your statline.
However, back on topic, I have to agree that the Ork LD is capped at 10 (the rules in the BGB, as far as I'm concerned, specifically state that the stats are 0-10) - just my two cents.
I like my women how I like my coffee! In a plastic cup! - Eddie Izzard
Yeah I had to read that deamon weapon line a billion times to make sure it was correct, it says something along the lines of "GAINS 2D6 attacks", if it said, "the model is given 2D6 attacks to replace his basic attack" thats different, but that one little word can change a lot.
A bonus isn't a stat line though, If a model had 10 attacks and went on the charge, you wouldn't forfiet that charge attack simply because he's at his "max".
Doesn't the BGB say something about individual codexes overriding the BGB?
But this is a pickle, I think 10 would have to be your max unfortunately.
I have to agree with all Characteristics being capped at level 10 except –
1. Attacks and,
2. Vehicle Armour, but that really has its own specific entry.
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
Adeptus Mechanicus Marines: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1655065
If this is true and the ruling is that stats are maxed at 10, then one could argue that bonuses cannot take you over this max and thus the most attacks a single model could get is 10 in a single turn.
Last edited by Monkeyclops; March 13th, 2008 at 17:38.
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