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  1. #1
    Ang
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    Fleeting after disembarking.

    Just having a rules discussion with some friends etc, and i am of the opinion that you cannot fleet after disembarking from a vehicle that has moved, they of course have the opposite idea. What is the general consensus of LO ?


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    Firefly Skarsgard's Avatar
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    To me it's like the deepstriking rationale.

    If the vehicle moved, no fleet.
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    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skarsgard View Post
    To me it's like the deepstriking rationale.

    If the vehicle moved, no fleet.

    Hi Mate,
    It has been FAQed in the past that fleeting is perfectly legal due to the fact that fleet replaces an allowable shooting phase and is not dependant on using or substituting anything from the movement phase.

    In other words if you are allowed to shoot you can fleet.

    Page 62 in the BGB makes mention of allowing shooting and thus allows fleet.

    The “move far enough only to deploy” phase only pertains to the movement phase.

    Cheers.
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

  5. #4
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    wicky, it has not been FAQ'd to allow fleeting after, and many rules have been faq'd in to read as such (namely the tau FAQ for 4th).

    There is no way to prove that the "no move" refers only to the movement phase, as rules apply to all phases unless otherwise stated.

    Otherwise I could assault through impassable terrain, fleet out and into transports, fleet through friendlies......

    In short, the rules don't allow you to fleet after riding in a moved vehicle, as fleet is classed as ADDITIONAL MOVEMENT, so no movement = no movement.

    That all said, some people can't figure out how to make an army list work without such an unfair advantage, so you may wish to talk it out pregame with them (namely DE players).

    But straight rules, it's a no go.

    And the if you can shoot= you can fleet isn't true, look at genestealers=) BS 0 means no chance to shoot.
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
    4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

  6. #5
    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarzen View Post
    wicky, it has not been FAQ'd to allow fleeting after, and many rules have been faq'd in to read as such (namely the tau FAQ for 4th).

    There is no way to prove that the "no move" refers only to the movement phase, as rules apply to all phases unless otherwise stated.

    Otherwise I could assault through impassable terrain, fleet out and into transports, fleet through friendlies......

    In short, the rules don't allow you to fleet after riding in a moved vehicle, as fleet is classed as ADDITIONAL MOVEMENT, so no movement = no movement.

    That all said, some people can't figure out how to make an army list work without such an unfair advantage, so you may wish to talk it out pregame with them (namely DE players).

    But straight rules, it's a no go.

    And the if you can shoot= you can fleet isn't true, look at genestealers=) BS 0 means no chance to shoot.

    Hi again,
    Now Tarzen are you going to force me to search for one of your previous posts that said you agreed with me?

    And from “darkeldarqaa.pdf” from Games Workshop it states -
    Q. It seems a model could indeed move in his transport, get out 2”, then fleet of foot, then assault - any problem there?
    A. This is perfectly legal because the move/disembark take place in the Movement phase and the fleet of foot is in the Shooting phase.


    And the original question was about disembarking followed by fleet and since disembarking is classed as movement the “additional” movement of fleet is allowed if shooting is allowed.
    You move 2” from disembarking then you add a D6” to it, simple.

    So as straight rules go it’s a yes, yes to the question.

    But seriously you got me with the “additional” bit back there and it’s just that I have never seen fleet done without some sort of movement done first as its just plain logic that you want as much movement as possible when doing all of this.

    Cheers.
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

  7. #6
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    couple of things-the Q&A is from EARLY third edition. not even an FAQ, which means nadda these days.

    2-sorry mate, never agreed that DE could do this, I promise that.

    3-the rules for moving after disembarking are crystal clear, "you may move no further than the 2" to disembark.". Pretty much says it all=)

    4-Again, movement is movement, no matter when it is done. Being able to shoot doesn't mean you can fleet, nor ignore other rules. If you are pinned, you can't fleet, if you are immobile, you can't fleet.

    Anyways, not trying to hash it out, just pointing out where the current rules lay. This may change in 5th.
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
    4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

  8. #7
    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarzen View Post
    couple of things-the Q&A is from EARLY third edition. not even an FAQ, which means nadda these days.

    2-sorry mate, never agreed that DE could do this, I promise that.

    3-the rules for moving after disembarking are crystal clear, "you may move no further than the 2" to disembark.". Pretty much says it all=)

    4-Again, movement is movement, no matter when it is done. Being able to shoot doesn't mean you can fleet, nor ignore other rules. If you are pinned, you can't fleet, if you are immobile, you can't fleet.

    Anyways, not trying to hash it out, just pointing out where the current rules lay. This may change in 5th.


    Hi again,
    1. Now I have proven that this question been adequately addressed in the past and since the rules for disembarking and fleeting haven’t changed THAT much it does show precedent.
    2. My memory for this kind of reply is pretty good so bear with me while I do a search but I can quote a very similar debate between you and “Danceman” that ended in disembark /fleet being accepted. (My Internet time whilst at whist at work is very limited!)
    3. The rules for disembarking are exactly that – Rules for Disembarking. I am not questioning this at all; it’s the use of fleet after this. Fleet is a Universal Special Rule and as such carries the ability to override core rules so arguing core rules as a form of denial wont help here.
    4. Movement is not just movement as a general term. There is movement in the movement phase and this is what is referred to in the Disembarking Rules and I quote “Models can only voluntarily embark or disembark in the movement phase.” (Page 62) There is obviously movement in the shooting phase, commonly called Fleet and there is movement in the assault phase commonly called a “charge.” So when it states, “Move far enough only to deploy” this refers to the last amount of travel allotted to you after vehicular movement – the whole act being in the movement phase. The last sentence of that rule allows the act of shooting, does it not? This goes outside of the movement phase and is not part of the embark/disembark rules. It also allows assault if opened topped and doesn’t this also involve movement? Pinning has nothing to do with this one so why bring it up?

    Anyway the game as played does allow the disembark/fleet combination, in every tournament I have seen or read about allows it, maybe some you have seen don’t but from a 4th Ed view point there is an allowance to disembark in the movement phase and an allowance to shoot in the shooting phase that can be substituted with Fleet as additional movement or travel.

    If pushed I will find those old posts but I shouldn’t need to, Cheers.
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

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    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
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    I'm with wicky on this one. Fleet is a move that substitutes shooting - if something denies shooting then fleet would be denied.

    There is nothing in the core rules to disallow fleeting after one disembarks, show me a rule where it states that you can't and I'll agree, but until then...
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon

  10. #9
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickywacky1 View Post
    Hi again,
    1. Now I have proven that this question been adequately addressed in the past and since the rules for disembarking and fleeting haven’t changed THAT much it does show precedent.
    I can also show you precendent (from the same edition), that allowed blood angels to move 18" in a rhino, get out, and assault. If you would like to go there, you'll find it all in third edition. If you are talking about current rules, I would suggest using them, not third edition Q&As (again, not even FAQs)
    2. My memory for this kind of reply is pretty good so bear with me while I do a search but I can quote a very similar debate between you and “Danceman” that ended in disembark /fleet being accepted. (My Internet time whilst at whist at work is very limited!)
    Nah, if you'd like I can send you a few of the very very negative PMs I've got for pointing out that you CAN'T do this in 4th edition, but that you COULD IN THIRD.
    3. The rules for disembarking are exactly that – Rules for Disembarking. I am not questioning this at all; it’s the use of fleet after this. Fleet is a Universal Special Rule and as such carries the ability to override core rules so arguing core rules as a form of denial wont help here.
    and there is nothing in the fleet rule that says it ignores "Can't move further". It does specify one normal movement restriction it does overrule, which is no hinderance for moving through difficult terrain. All other rules for movement are still in place-no moving through friendlies, nor within 1" of enemies and all that.

    4. Movement is not just movement as a general term. There is movement in the movement phase and this is what is referred to in the Disembarking Rules and I quote “Models can only voluntarily embark or disembark in the movement phase.” (Page 62) There is obviously movement in the shooting phase, commonly called Fleet and there is movement in the assault phase commonly called a “charge.” So when it states, “Move far enough only to deploy” this refers to the last amount of travel allotted to you after vehicular movement – the whole act being in the movement phase. The last sentence of that rule allows the act of shooting, does it not? This goes outside of the movement phase and is not part of the embark/disembark rules. It also allows assault if opened topped and doesn’t this also involve movement? Pinning has nothing to do with this one so why bring it up?
    how about this wicky, how about if I stun your vehicle that happens to have all defensive weapons. Now, next turn you say I'm not moving so I can fire all my defensives- is that okay, since the specific rule for how many weapons you may fire is a special rule? how about a pinned MC, can it fire one gun, since it can fire 1 more than normal?
    In short, there is nothing in the fleet rule that says it overrides any part of the disembark rules. Further, it clearly states that fleet is MOVEMENT.

    Anyway the game as played does allow the disembark/fleet combination, in every tournament I have seen or read about allows it, maybe some you have seen don’t but from a 4th Ed view point there is an allowance to disembark in the movement phase and an allowance to shoot in the shooting phase that can be substituted with Fleet as additional movement or travel.
    nah, it's a 3rd edition hangout that DE ABUSE. Plain and simple. If you claim that you can use, I claim I can fleet out of my vehicle (since it's instead of shooting right?), or fleet through impassable (since it's not normal movement), or through enemy models (see above). Many tourney organizers allow it because many don't know the rules. If you'd really like, i can show you the 8 rules I got changed in a national tourney by currecting what they had posted online pregame. Mind you, tourney organizers can set any rules they wish-show me in the bgb where it says only GW models and 3 different paints...

    Not trying to come down on ya, just pointing out that many are confussed about the rules as they come from 3rd, and are no longer supported in fourth.
    If pushed I will find those old posts but I shouldn’t need to, Cheers.
    nah, but I will link if you'd like=)
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
    4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

  11. #10
    Ang
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    Well, still looks like you can't fleet after disembarking to me. Rules seem fairly clear on it. I'm sorry Wicky, but 3rd ed rules =/= 4th ed rules.

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