Howling Banshees counter assault - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Howling Banshees counter assault

    Well, playing in a Rouge trader tournament the other day and came upon an interesting situation as it may seem to me.

    I was playing a nid player, and i was eldar. He charged my howling banshees with his genestealers, while my banshees had acrobat (counter assault). So i told him to hold it, and moved my units to combat (as said in the rules), but it also states that Counter assault is an assault move, just not getting the +1 attacks for assaulting back.

    My opponent and I were wondering, Does the banshee mask due its worst in this situations, striking at initiative 10? or would we go by initiative order?


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    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
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    The banshee mask works in the first round of combat, regardless of who actually charged. So, if banshees get charged they still get I10.
    Remember this applies for the first round of combat for the banshees. If the banshees are already in combat and then get charged by another unit you work it out as normal (i.e. Inititative values).
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon

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    Hmm. I just wonder about that. The reason I'm doubting is that the situation reminded me about the Space Wolf "Stormcaller" power being cast on a SW unit which is assaulting/assaulted. Stormcaller is effective against the unit the SW assaulted in their turn, and is still in effect until the start of the next SW turn. The SW unit will fight in standard Initiative order against the original enemy unit in the following Enemy's turn, but should a second enemy unit also assault them in this same turn, then Stormcaller affects the new enemy unit and the SW will strike first against them if the SW player decides to attack the new enemy unit with some of his troops.

    Sorry, that might have been a little confusingly put! I'm just wondering if the Banshee Mask would still operate against the new assaulting unit since that unit is initiating a new combat.

    E.
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    They are not initiating a new combat, they are assaulting into an existing combat. It is only new for them. It simply gets worse (in the case of genestealers joining at least) for the shees
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakkawakka View Post
    Well, playing in a Rouge trader tournament the other day and came upon an interesting situation as it may seem to me.

    I was playing a nid player, and i was eldar. He charged my howling banshees with his genestealers, while my banshees had acrobat (counter assault). So i told him to hold it, and moved my units to combat (as said in the rules), but it also states that Counter assault is an assault move, just not getting the +1 attacks for assaulting back.

    My opponent and I were wondering, Does the banshee mask due its worst in this situations, striking at initiative 10? or would we go by initiative order?
    Hi,
    Banshee mask wearers do not refer to the initiative values of 1 to 10 mentioned in the BGB but simply “Always Strike first.” (Regardless of any other factors.)

    That is to say that Banshees are NOT Initiative 10 and this becomes more apparent when you pit an ”Initiative 10” model against another with “Always Strike first.” The ASF model will win every time.

    The mask obviously only has its effect lasting for the first round of combat.

    Cheers.
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    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickywacky1 View Post
    Hi,
    Banshee mask wearers do not refer to the initiative values of 1 to 10 mentioned in the BGB but simply “Always Strike first.” (Regardless of any other factors.)

    That is to say that Banshees are NOT Initiative 10 and this becomes more apparent when you pit an ”Initiative 10” model against another with “Always Strike first.” The ASF model will win every time.

    The mask obviously only has its effect lasting for the first round of combat.

    Cheers.
    Where are you getting this from wicky?
    As per the entry for banshee masks in the Eldar Codex:
    "In the first round of assault a model wearing a Banshee mask has iniative 10 and negates any iniative bonus conferred by cover and grenades"

    Therefore Banshees always strike at I10 in the first round of assault, whether they charge or get charged.
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon

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    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch Thomo View Post
    Where are you getting this from wicky?
    As per the entry for banshee masks in the Eldar Codex:
    "In the first round of assault a model wearing a Banshee mask has iniative 10 and negates any iniative bonus conferred by cover and grenades"

    Therefore Banshees always strike at I10 in the first round of assault, whether they charge or get charged.
    The Wargear Book, don't tell me that the Codex goes on to say something different?

    Fair enough, if it does, you got me then.

    But it becomes even more a can of worms when older Codex's have an ASF that can be used against the I10 Banshees to advantage.

    So my Wych with the drug ASF used to be simultaneously with the Banshee and now its not?

    Now I am confused! (No wonder this is addressed in 5th Ed.)

    P.S. I stil stand by the claim that ASF is a level above init. 10.
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    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
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    How old is the wargear book? Last edition Eldar had the banshee mask as ASF, but now it's I10.
    ASF is ASF, not I10. So in the case of your wyches, yes they would strike before the I10 Banshees.
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch Thomo View Post
    How old is the wargear book? Last edition Eldar had the banshee mask as ASF, but now it's I10.
    ASF is ASF, not I10. So in the case of your wyches, yes they would strike before the I10 Banshees.
    Its 2005, so I think that the new and improved Banshees got shafted!

    Good pickup Mate.
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    Yeah, the new banshees got kicked in the teeth again (along with their lose of s7 power weapons, but lets not go there).

    As stated, the banshees get init 10, ignoring cover and grenades, on the first round of their combat. Whether they initate it or not.

    And yes, wyches now are the only models that still ASF, IIRC.
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