Can trukks kareen off the table ? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Can trukks kareen off the table ?

    The title says it all : can Ork trukks kareen off the table ? It came up in a game, we diced for it, no problem. But I'd like to know for future games.

    Plan B is not automatically twice as much explosive as plan A

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    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    443 (x8)

    Well, one school of thought (the one I agree with) says that you may not. You can reference the Ramshackle Rule's use of the phrase "as far as possible". Many believe that there is no legal way to move off the board, except through falling back, but even then you are not moving off the board, because reaching the board edge was the issue, not actually moving beyond. Anyway...

    This is just one way of looking at it, I could be wrong, so let's see what our more prominent Rules Lawyers think.
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
    ---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes

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    Charitably Tables People MVBrandt's Avatar
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    196 (x5)

    What psichotyk said. You cannot "move" off the table. You do not even fall back off the table - you simply are removed from play when you reach the table edge.

    You cannot move to where there is no board, so you stop at the edge.
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    OK, seems fair and consistent with other rules.

    Thanks v much
    Plan B is not automatically twice as much explosive as plan A

  6. #5
    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    434 (x8)

    Hi,
    This was done to death over at Warseer and the conclusion was that Trukks that kareen off the table are destroyed.

    Sorry to chuck a spanner in the works guys!

    Now before this one gets heated please accept that at the moment my new Ork Codex is at home but I thought that the “Kareen” rule stated something like “continues to move out of control until it hits another unit or terrain…….”

    So if some one could paraphrase the Kareen rule we can immediately move forward on this but I believe that since the Trukk is “out of control” the Ork player is not moving anything off the table – the trukk is doing it all by itself.

    Its just that the only reference to being destroyed by moving towards the table edge is in the “Fall Back” rules but its horribly consistent to claim that anything that crosses that event horizon suffers the same fate.

    Cheers.
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

  7. #6
    Charitably Tables People MVBrandt's Avatar
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    196 (x5)

    The rule does not say continues to move out of control until it hits.

    It states that it goes out of control to explain the fluff of what is happening.

    Then it states that you should "Move the trukk 3d6" as far as possible in a random direction. Then apply the kaboom! result. If the Trukk would careen into an enemy models or terrain, stop it 1" away."

    That is not a perfect quote. I ommitted a parenthetical about what happens if you roll a hit on the scatter dice so that I am not perfectly copy/pasting.

    In short, the Trukk goes Kaboom one way or another. You cannot move it off the table, there's nowhere off the table to move to. So, as soon as you hit the end, you've moved as far as possible, and so Kaboom at the table edge. It's pretty cut and dry.

    I'm sure tons of semantics games could be played regardless. It does not "fall back move." Vehicles can't fall back anyway. Is there any other way to move off the table? If not, seems easy to me. AFAIK you can't leave the table except by fall back or being destroyed, or by some special rule that says "if xyz happens and takes you off the table edge, you're lost."
    Last edited by MVBrandt; March 6th, 2008 at 23:01.
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  8. #7
    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    434 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by MVBrandt View Post
    The rule does not say continues to move out of control until it hits.

    It states that it goes out of control to explain the fluff of what is happening.

    Then it states that you should "Move the trukk 3d6" as far as possible in a random direction. Then apply the kaboom! result. If the Trukk would careen into an enemy models or terrain, stop it 1" away."

    That is not a perfect quote. I ommitted a parenthetical about what happens if you roll a hit on the scatter dice so that I am not perfectly copy/pasting.

    In short, the Trukk goes Kaboom one way or another. You cannot move it off the table, there's nowhere off the table to move to. So, as soon as you hit the end, you've moved as far as possible, and so Kaboom at the table edge. It's pretty cut and dry.

    I'm sure tons of semantics games could be played regardless. It does not "fall back move." Vehicles can't fall back anyway. Is there any other way to move off the table? If not, seems easy to me. AFAIK you can't leave the table except by fall back or being destroyed, or by some special rule that says "if xyz happens and takes you off the table edge, you're lost."
    Ah, ok I agree, I thought that some one was revving up to claim that the Trukk would survive at the tables edge.

    Good conclusion, thanks.

    P.S. Would Sky Leap be classed as "moving off the table?"
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

  9. #8
    Fun guy from Yuggoth Moglun's Avatar
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    235 (x4)

    Quote Originally Posted by wickywacky1 View Post
    Ah, ok I agree, I thought that some one was revving up to claim that the Trukk would survive at the tables edge.

    Good conclusion, thanks.

    P.S. Would Sky Leap be classed as "moving off the table?"
    My understanding was that skyleap was more like "going back into reserve". You remove the model from the board, but it's not really the same as moving off the table edge.
    Put the box on the table by the window in the kitchen.

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    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    434 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moglun View Post
    My understanding was that skyleap was more like "going back into reserve". You remove the model from the board, but it's not really the same as moving off the table edge.
    Well if you are not “on” the table the only other alternative is “off” the table but this is splitting hairs here.

    I am going to let this one die, Cheers.
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

  11. #10
    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
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    For skyleap, you do take the models off the table, they are allowed to re-enter though - that's the special bit.
    As for the trukk careening off the table - yes it is possible (at least that was the final consensus from warseer). The only specifications in the ork dex mention enemy troops and impassable terrain. The board edge is neither, and although you cannot voluntarily move off it (well, you can, but there really isn't a point), careen isn't a voluntary move.
    It is, from what I remember of that discussion, treated as a Deep Strike that scattered off the table - same result, which is fair enough.
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon

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