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In Codex: Witchhunters, it says you can't take witch hunters in a force with any other allies, with the exception or other ordos of the inquisition, such as grey knights, and other detatchments. My question is thus: I want to take both Grey Knights and Sister of Battle in a Space Marine army. How many can I have? The allies bar says you can have 1 hq, 1 elites, 2 troops, and 1 fast. Same for Daemon Hunters. So does this mean you could have 2 sisters of battle squads and 2 grey knights squads? And 1 serephim AND a teleporting grey knights squad? I know you wouldn't be able to have both flavors of inquisistor (Darn! but could you have sisters repentia AND grey knights termies? Thanks in advance.
I would say you would have to go 0-1 hq, 0-1 elite, 0-2 troop and 0-1 fast as how many allied troops you may have. Otherwise you could end up with 5 hqs running around overpowering everything (2 for the first army and 1 hq for witch/demon/alien inquisitor codex)Originally posted by Power Toast@Apr 17 2004, 21:34
In Codex: Witchhunters, it says you can't take witch hunters in a force with any other allies, with the exception or other ordos of the inquisition, such as grey knights, and other detatchments.
So I'd say you could still go nuts and field say a Witch hunter inquistor lord + retinue (hq), grey knight termies (elite) sisters and grey knights (troops) and serephim(fast) plus the default space marine commander and his two 5 man tac squads :rolleyes: smell the unfluffy cheese
(i'd bet the witch hunter would take one look at the hazy psychic space marines, shout witch and then try to burn them )
Two things that you might to remember about:
1- When it comes to allies please remeber that you always have to fill the mandatory choices for the mission (usually 1 HQ and 2 Troops for standard missions) from the main list, Space Marines in your case.
2- Another thing that might make you unhappy is that in codex: Witch Hunters its stated that you may never take Space Marines as allies if there are any Sororita squads present in the force. If this works the other way around i don't know (but i still think you make them as allies in a Space Marine army) more important is that rule completely spoils a lot of people's idead about geting Grey Knights and Sororitas in the same army shielding the Grey Knights with the Sisters ( shame on them ).
Withchunters work the same as Daemonhunters do..I cant induct Space Marines into a DH list if I am using Grey Knights, but I can induct Grey Knights into a Space Marine Army....SOB works exactly the same.....
as for 1 hq, 1 elite, etc.....I would be willing to bet that you only get one inducted list, and they both fill slots in the same list, but im not positive....
and Grey Knights and SOB together...you can induct GK into a SOB army, but not the other way around....
Ok, here is what we know.
-In a Space Marines army or an Imperial Guard army, Daemon Hunter and/or Witch Hunter Allies can be taken.
-In a Daemon Hunters army, Witch Hunter Allies can be taken.
-Allies can have 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elites, 0-2 Troops, and 0-1 Fast Attack.
What we want to know
-Is the number of choices you can take from allies per ally, or over all? IE could you field both GK Termies and Sisters Repentia in the same force, if it satisfyed the FOC?
ok, one thing there...Daemonhunters can induct witch hunters, but from there lists, you cant induct any of the sisters....where from the Sisters list, you CAN inducy GK....to my knowledge to date, and as I was under the impression from GW, you can never Induct more than one thing into an army list, meaning you couldnt have both Sisters and GK inducted into a Space Marine Army, so the only way this would be possible is to induct GK into a Sisters Army
alright, the word Induct and the word Ally have been used in so many ways I really don't know whats going on. Induction is when you have Witch hunters or Deamon hunters as the Base army and use the rules on pages 26 of the witch hunters codex, or pages 30-21 in the Deamon hunters codex. This can only be used if You have the manditory choices for either a Deamon hunters or a witch hunters force taken, and even then you may only take the Imperial guard OR (not both, one or the other) Space marine units listed on those pages (and only in the quantities listed there).
IMPORTANT NOTE: if either Grey knights or Sisters of battle are present in your force, then space marines may not under any circumstances be inducted. This ONLY stops induction.
Nothing else is considered induction.
Then there are the Duel force organization charts. This is available to any army that would make sense, but is an un-official rule that is not often condoned in tourniments. It allows you to make all of the choices available to 2 different forces. You MUST take the manditory force organization chart slots however. Affectively this is exactly as if you played 2 armies at the same time. Example: Jim has an imperial guard army, and barrowed toms space marines army. He needs to take 1 space marines hq choice, and 2 space marines troops choice. Then he can take any space marines units he wants. For his guard to be in the same battle he needs 1 imperial guard hq choice, and 2 imperial guard troop choices. This is exactly the same as if Tom and Jim were playing together against the same aponent(s) accept that Tom is not present and Jim is running the show.
Finnally there are the ALLY rules. This is the only thing that should have the word ALLY used with it, as the allies show up on their own, and arent forced into the force with a mandate (like an inquisiter, or something).
Here is how it works: On page 21 of the Deamon hunters codex, and page 25 of the witch hnters codex, there is a small box that list all of the ALLY rules. Your force is one of the 3 forces listed on those pages. You are either Space marines, Imperial guard or An ordo of the Inquisition (if your base army is Deamon hunters, then you may only use the Witch hunters ally rules. If your base army is Witch hunters, then you may only use Daemon hunters ally rules.)
Once you have taken your compulsory choices from those army list you may include either Deamon hunters or Witch hunters into your army list as allies. You are allowed 1hq 1elite 2troop and 1fastattack. These take up slots of your force organization chart (you still cant fanagle 3 hQ choices), and will not count as compulsory choices. The allies do not have any compulsory choices involved. If you want to take a single unit (squad of grey knight terminators for example) for your Imperial guard army thats fine as long as you follow the rules.
Witch hunters (of all kinds including sisters of battle) may be taken as allies for any Imperial army including deamon hunters (NO MATTER THE MAKE UP OF THE DEAOMON HUNTERS FORCE).
Daemon hunters (of all kinds including Grey knights) may be taken as allies for any Imperial army including Witch hunters (NO MATTER THE MAKE UP OF THE WITCH HUNTERS FORCE).
Example1: Sisters of battle force including 1 Cannoness 2battle sister squads and 1 squad of grey knights
Example2: Grey knights force including 1 Grand master, 2 squads of grey knights, 1 squad of battle sisters
Example3: Imperial guard force including 1Command Platoon, 2 Infantry platoons, 1 Grey Knights squad.
Example4: Imperial guard force including 1Command Platoon, 2 Infantry platoons, 1 Sisters of Battle squad.
Example5: Space marines force of blood angels (using all of the blood angels special rules) including 1 Force Commander, 2 blood angles tactical marines squads, and 1 squad of grey knights
Example6: Space marines force of Dark angels (using all of the Dark angels special rules) including 1 Dark angelsForce Commander, 2 Dark angles tactical marines squads, and 1 squad of battle sisters.
Example7: Grey knights force wtih 1 Grand master, 2 squads of grey knights, 1 squad of sisters of battle (ally), 1 infantry platoon of Imperial guard (inducted).
This is all simplified if you think of it in terms of the base army. You do everything as if your alllies or inducties werent there, and if you have points left over (or set aside just for this) then you may take allies from any force that is allowed to do so. If a unit of an ordo is taken as allies they may not induct (so no grey knights with inducted guard, and an allied witch hunters inquisiter that inducted some space marines.)
To Power Toast, only one of your armies needs to satisfie the force organization chart. Either Deamon huntesr or sisters, and then you can take whatever is absent (either your Repentia if it is a Deamon hunters, or Grey Knight Terminators if the base army is Witch hunters)
OrionLethe was the closest, and provides the simplest and most correct version of the rules, however his last line of text ruined it for him, as he used the induction word wrong, AND was wrong about sisters and grey knights together. A sisters force may take Grey knights as allies (this is not an induction but a Deamon hunter ally), and a Grey Knights force may take Sisters as allies (this is not an induction but a Witch hunters ally). Neither of these force may "induct" each other.
Beanith, your Idea for the witch hunters army with grey knights and space marines is ALMOST possible, accept that you have sisters as the troop choices, and then try to induct space marines. If you took Inquisitorial witch hunter storm troopers (atleast 2), then it would work (you still have to drop all sisters choices entirely). To keep the sisters you would have to take imp guard as the inducted troops instead of space marines. If you wanted to base it on Deamon hunters, switch the witch hunter for an ordo Malleus inquisiter and dropp EVERY grey knight you have. Then you must take Deamon hunter inquisitorial storm troopers (no difference between these and the ordo hereticus storm troopers). If you wanted both Grey knights and Sisters then you may not induct space marines no matter how your force is organized.
This will either confuse every one or clear up every thing. Im sorry for this being my longest post ever, but the question being posed is not easy to answer, and can easily be mis-read if the rules arent explained in complete detail. I may not be correct about being able to induct and have allies at the same time, but I see no rule that contradicts it (not even where it says "Witch Hunters cannot ally with a force that uses any other type of ally with the exception of separate detachments and units from other Ordos of the Inquisition" on page 25 of the Witch hunters codex. I interpret this too meen that space marines may not be included in such a force even if Grey knights and Sisters are absent, but imp guard are OK)
ok..holy crap..that was long, but necessary, thank you for the clerifications
I am sorry for coming back to this but either i am wrong or i did not make myself understand.
The rules in whitch hunters state that you cannot 'induct' any Space Marine choices if your army already has Sister units.
I think we all agree on this... now.... in my point of view Grey Knights are Space Marines, indeed they are a full Chapter of Space Marines so I don't think you can take Grey Knights as inducted choice in a Witch Hunters army which includes Sisters of Battle units in it....