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Thread: Force Weapons.

  1. #1
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    Force Weapons.

    1. If a Grey Knight terminator is in close combat, they have two attacks on their profile, a force weapon and a storm bolter, do all three attacks count as force weapon attacks? I was told this last Friday and my jaw dropped at the stupidity of it.

    2. Do I get a feel-no-pain roll against Force Weapons?

    Thanks.


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  3. #2
    Charitably Tables People MVBrandt's Avatar
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    Force Weapons count as Power Weapons under most circumstances. The Grey Knight "Nemesis" Force Weapons also confer a +2 strength bonus to those wielding them, and are power weapons in the hands of Grand Masters, Brother-Captains, Terminators and Justicars.

    As a result of this, just like a Power Sword would count for all close combat attacks, so would a Force Weapon.

    The difference is that once all damage is resolved, the Grey Knight Grand Master may choose to use the Force Weapon's psychic power for ONE unsaved wound, and if he passes his psychic test it kills the wounded target outright. Note: Until 5th edition, it does not cause "Instant Death" and so will kill even models like Demon Princes, Tyranids in Synapse range, and Eldar Phoenix Lords outright.

    EVERY wound caused does NOT kill a target outright, only one can, and it counts as a psychic attack used for ONE of the unsaved wounds (so after all invul/etc. saves are rolled). Only the Grand Master can use it as an actual Force Weapon in this way, and he must follow all psychic power usage restrictions (like using multiple powers in a turn etc.). In fact, any model with a Force Weapon counts it as a power weapon at BEST unless it is actually a psyker (I know it seems odd to have a force weapon but not be a psyker rules-wise, but the Grey Knight Terminators for instance cannot use a force weapon's psychic power).

    Since whether he uses his psychic power or not, it is still a Power Weapon (again, for Grey Knights, only on Justicars, Heroes, and Terminators), so all attacks ignore armor saves. Feel No Pain cannot be used against attacks which ignore armor saves in close combat (such as rending, power weapons, etc.).

    I hope that is a clear and comprehensive enough answer.


    Short-hand:
    1. All three count as force weapon attacks, but only one unsaved wound can be used for the kill outright psychic power. The force weapon does not inherently kill outright, it just counts as a power weapon (on Grey Knight Terminators).
    2. No you do not, unless it is a Nemesis Force Weapon used by a Grey Knight Marine, since their Nemesis Force Weapons are not power weapons. Basically all other Nemesis or regular Force Weapons count as power weapons, and so ignore armor in close combat and therefore deny Feel No Pain.
    Last edited by MVBrandt; May 1st, 2008 at 15:23.
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  4. #3
    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    1. A GK Terminator does NOT benefit from True Grit.So Termie GK's get no bonus for the storm bolter. The only bonus attacks they get are for charging. Have the GK player double check their codex. Only GK's in power armor get True Grit. The rest as MVB put it...

    2. You do not get FNP versus CC attacks that deny armor saves. Check the Universal Special Rules towards the end of the rulebook.
    Last edited by psichotykwyrm; May 1st, 2008 at 15:23.
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    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psichotykwyrm View Post
    1. A GK Terminator does NOT benefit from True Grit.So Termie GK's get no bonus for the storm bolter. The only bonus attacks they get are for charging. Have the GK player double check their codex. Only GK's in power armor get True Grit.
    Well, as much as I hate it, there is a sort of RAW argument for them receiving True Grit. The passage you're referring to is under the True Grit heading in the DH codex special rules. Under this heading it specifies who makes use of the True Grit rule: Grey Knights in Power Armor. The DH codex FAQ specifies that we should use the USR for True Grit found in the BGB (Soon to be BRB!). In the rulebook, it says that Grey Knights may use True Grit with a stormbolter, without referencing Power Armor or Terminator Armor. So you've got two arguments:

    1. The FAQ says to use the USR for True Grit, which replaces the entire codex entry for True Grit. As this codex entry is what restricted True Grit to Power Armored Grey Knights, and the rulebook doesn't differentiate between Power Armored or Tactical Dreadnought Armored Grey Knights, Grey Knight Terminators receive True Grit.

    2. The FAQ says to use the USR for True Grit, but the restriction on who receives True Grit is not itself part of the True Grit rule. So the mechanics of True Grit are found in the rulebook, but the restrictions in the codex still apply. Thus Grey Knight Terminators do not receive True Grit.

    Personally, I think number 1 is a twisting of the rules and in poor taste, but we unfortunately have very little else to go on here. Take your pick which argument you think is more convincing =).

    -H
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