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If a tank is positioned so that it is presenting 60% Front and 40% Side to an enemy cannon, can that player choose to 'aim' for the side rather than the front????
It's not a matter of %, it's a matter of arc. You draw a STRAIGHT, SHORTEST line from the weapon to the target. So whatever the shortest distance straight line hits is the side hit.
In short, if his gun is 55 inches from your front armor, but he can "aim" to the side armor and it's 57 inches away, he's in front arc.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
meaning that, with imperium style tanks, you're going to be hitting a corner regardless of where you are 99.9% of the time, and a corner is connected to two sides which are equally far from said corner, ipso facto, the firer is always closest to two sides. Care to redefine that explanation?
I've always been under the impression that the side you can see more of is the side that you hit, simply because you'll be shooting at the largest target possible/you have the best chance of hitting that part of the vehicle.
My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.
Buy a laser pointer? It's straight line to front or side arc. In the near mathematically impossible event that you are equidistant to the two sides, namely have a true 50/50 split, dice off (?) or I would say front arc.
Feel free to show me a graphical representation of this crazy 50/50 conundrum, they rarely exist. You don't get to draw a line to the facing that suits you best, or that is most visible ... hell if you're shooting at a tank with a 3" wide front and 15" long, you'll be able to see far more "side" but still may be in the front arc.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
Arcs are defined in the BGB. Note that for rectangular vehicles part of the side of the vehicle is included in the Front and Rear Arcs. Just look at the diagram. Unfortunatley they don't give a great explanation of how to apply these arcs and the number of degrees for each but the house rule around here is:
1) draw the outline of the vehicle on paper
2) find the centre of the outline (this prevents eldar skimmers from having disproportionately small rear arcs by using a point behind the driver to calculate centre)
3) draw a large plus symbol diagonally through the centre to each edge (so all corners are 90 degrees)
EDIT: eventually nobody needs the paper outline, you all get used to what it looks like on the actual model and we're not afraid to just 4+ it in marginal cases
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The side you hit is determined by the arc of the vehicle that you are standing in. Measuring the shortest distance is a handy expedient for most cases, but it is not the rule. Draw a box through the tank and determine which arc the model is standing in as shown in the rulebook. It doesn't matter what you can 'see.' Even if the facing for the arc that you're in is completely obscured by terrain and all the model can "see" is the side of the tank, you still roll against the front armor if you're standing in the front arc.
I find that it all depends on the centre point of the target as all ‘arcs’ are described from there.
So draw a line from the weapons mount to the centre point of the target vehicle then figure out which ‘arc’ or quadrant that the line bisects (you do not have any ‘choice’ here by the way.)
The problem will still remain of where exactly do these quadrants stop and start – its all good on a boxy vehicle like a Rhino due to its sharply defined corners but anything rounded or less symmetrical and the interpretations become unclear.
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
The "arc" approach is legal, but I think it's a parallel fact that the shortest distance will always get you to the proper arc also, usually with less fuss about what the arc is or isn't.
The fact is, shortest distance has no user error really built into it, arc drawing opens up for a lot of "well you're not doing it right" and time-wastery, eventually resulting in a dice off that is inherently a worse result than the actual truth of the matter.
My $.02 is all ... the "rule" is arc, shortest line is in mathematical agreement with the rule.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
I'm going to try something new for me here... hopefully it works! I'll attach a visual aid... please excuse my Paint skills.
As has been explained, the front/side/rear arcs are determined by finding a center point on the vehicle and tracing 90 degree lines from that point. Position of the firer within these arcs determines which side is hit.
The picture illustrates this as follows: Black box is vehicle, with the top being the front. The black lines inside the box determine the center point.. Blue lines describe the front/side/rear arcs of the vehicle. The red dot is the enemy firing on the vehicle. The dot is in the side arc, and so is automatically firing at the side armor. Note that the shortest line from the dot to the vehicle is actually the corner in the front arc, although if you were using a laser pointer I suspect most of the light would show up on the right side of the vehicle.
Even if you were to put a wall which completely blocked the side of the vehicle from the firer so that it could only see the front, the shot would still be resolved against the side armor as that is the arc the firer is situated in.
Last edited by Moglun; May 16th, 2008 at 16:32.
Put the box on the table by the window in the kitchen.
If I draw the shortest line to something like a falcon... how the heck do I then figure out if the point it touches is on the 'front' or the 'side' of what's essentially egg shaped? =) (I realize a Falcon has the same front and side armor, but the system should still be able to answer the question.)