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Consider this scenario in which a squad of tooled up Burna Boyz attack a squad of Tau Stealthsuits and are defeated utterly, due to my chronic bad luck I suffer in every game and a dubious ruling for close combat attacks.
10 Boyz charge the suits with 4 in base to base contact and 6 in the next row but still within the 2 inch range as stated in the rulebook.
The suits attack first, been beardy stealthsuits (Tau crap in CC, I think not!) and inflict 4 wounds killing 4 Orks (like I said I'm chronically unlucky and can never roll 6's) killing the front row. Now the Tau player claims that I can't attack with any of the other 6 Orks that were within the 2 inch range at the start of the combat. Therefore they lose the combat and flee from another case of chronic bad luck.
Is this the right way to do it coz if so, that means Tau do not suck in CC like people say and that Orks actually have a major disadvantage due to their low INIT regardless of whether they charge or not making them officially suck in CC! ;?
What are the initiative values of a stealthsuit? 4+? Remember, Orks get +1 I and +1 S on the charge from Furious Charge.
But anyway.... Assuming you have only 4 models in base contact and your opponent swings first, if you lose four models and take the four from base contact, then you cannot swing. HOWEVER, nothing states that you *have* to take the models from base-to-base first. You can take anyone that's engaged (either in base-to-base or within 2" of a model who is), assuming that you don't take yourself out of coherency.
Then, on your initiative step, anyone who is still alive and either in base-to-base or within 2" of someone who is gets to swing.
Guy told me it had to be base to base first!! No wonder I got screwed over! That would be have been some dead suits with 6 Burnas attacking back!!
And the INIT of stealthsuits is effectively 10 because they always count as in cover apparently! The Orks furious charge rule is not exactly groundbreaking though. The STR boost only puts them on part with every marine race and even half the other races and thats only on the charge, and the INIT boost is pointless. The only race that makes any difference on is other Orks and Necrons, otherwise you're generally fighting people with INIT 4+ anyway!
Crack open the Tau Empire book sometime and compare the points cost of a stealth suit to your poor beleaguered striking-second Orks =)
Yeah, you were lied to if he told you base to base were removed first. Anyone "engaged" (within 2") can be removed as a casualty.
Stealth suits do not always count as in cover for the purpose of being assaulted. If they do, my opponents (plural) have been shafting themselves for some time now.
You need to make sure you read the rulebook thoroughly, my friend. Your opponent was shameful in mis-telling you, but for all you know he didn't know better either. Don't lose things like that and come to the wrong conclusion about units simply b/c you've not kept up on things. I don't mean this critically, just as friendly but somewhat blunt advice.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
Stealth suits always count as in cover for the initial charge, but I am hazy about the rounds after that. Personally I wouldn't count rounds after that for in cover with my suits because I would imagine the battle has envolped all the models cancelling such cover bonuses where models are now relying on their reflexes (It is not clarified in the codex though).
Pg 25 Tau Codex. "...Stealth armour troops count as being in cover if they are assaulted..."
Pretty straight forward. Unless you have frag grenades they'll always strike first or at best simultaneous with frags. After the first round of combat they'll revert to their normal init for the rest of the time they are in CC.
"The internet perceives censorship as damage, and routes around it."
Kinda makes them a bit hard in CC with their stats combined! And the points of a burna boy is 15 points for essentially something that will die in assault before it has a chance to attack and has to get close to do damage. Stealthsuits are cheap for what they do.
Stealthsuits are not very cheap, and are still pretty easy to gank. Marines aren't hard to gank, less tough with the same save aren't either.
In short, next time take off guys in the back ranks who are engaged, and blast him with the remaining 6. 9 hits, 6 wounds, 6 dead stealth suits on the charge. Unless they're WS3 (for some reason I think stealthies are 4??), then it's more.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt