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So a question came up in a 5th edition practice game today: Can the Changeling use its ability to try and subvert Lash of Submission?
The relevant (imo) pages to the discussion are:
- BRB, p50. The "Psychic Shooting Attacks" section states clearly that using a 'psychic shooting attack' counts as firing a ranged weapon.
- Daemons of Chaos Codex, p54. The "Glamous of Tzeentch" section states the effects of the Changeling's ability. You target a unit about to fire.
So the real question then becomes whether or not Lash is a shooting attack:
- Chaos Space Marines Codex, p88. Lash of Submission states that it's used in the shooting phase "instead of using another ranged weapon".
Does this mean that it's being used instead of another ranged weapon because it counts as using a ranged weapon (ie, it's a psychic shooting attack), or does it mean that it's just simply used instead of shooting? Has anyone else had this question come up, and if so what resolution did you reach?
We played it as being able to affect the Lash, but I'm not sure if that's right and welcome other's opinions.
I think the new FAQs list what phychic powers are 'shooting attacks'. I think there is one for Chaos.
There's a new 5th ed. GW FAQ for Chaos, but it doesn't mention whether or not Lash counts as a shooting attack. Unless it's in another place?
All the old Specialist Games resources are currently being uploaded at the Tactical Command forums, and you can find them here: http://www.sg.tacticalwargames.net/fanatic/.
Fleet is also used instead of a ranged weapon, but it's hardly a shooting attack.
EDIT: Wait, that's 4th Ed talk. Disregard.
The FAQs define psychic shooting attacks as psychic powers which follow the rules for shooting (which I presume to refer to LOS, targetting restrictions, cover saves, fire points, etc). So if the Lash follows the rules for shooting (sorry, don't have the CSM book to check), it is a psychic shooting attack.
EDIT2: To clarfy that I'm not making a tautology, what I mean is: If the Lash can be used out of a fire point, needs to be used on the same unit as the rest of the squad shoots at, can only be used on a unit which is not the closest if you make a ld test, or whathaveyou then it must count as a shooting attack.
Last edited by Moglun; July 30th, 2008 at 18:00.
Put the box on the table by the window in the kitchen.
Lash states it must be used on something in line of sight and not a vehicle, that's it. And the Chaos FAQ does talk about lash (not whether or not it's a shooting attack, but rather...) saying that it gives you the ability to have the unit make a move. Ie, you roll the distance and can move up to that amount, change formation, etc... and that you cannot do it to a pinned unit, because a pinned unit cannot move.
Anyway, lets say you can use the changeling's ability on it (not sure if you can, but just for argument's sake)... If you succeed and pick a new unit to lash, who gets to control the movement? The ability just says that you pick a new target, it doesn't state that you would get to control the movement effect of the lash.
I'm inclined to say yes.
because that's exactly the crazy type of stuff that Tzeentch is capable of.
And yes, I am a CSM player.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
The last statement is true per the GW Chaos FAQ.
However, IIRC, you can only voluntarily go to ground when you've taken wounds to increase your cover save (or gain one in the open). The side effect of doing that is that you're pinned. I don't believe you can voluntarily go to ground any time you'd like, such as when lashed, since you're not receiving wounds.
Psychic powers are shooting attacks unless the power specifies otherwise in it's entry (say, conceal or veil of tears).