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"Line of sight must be traced from the eyes of the firing model to any part of the body of at least one of the models in the target unit (for ‘body’ we mean its head, torso, legs and arms)."
Does this mean that base sizes don't matter anymore? I've always played that a model takes up the space of its base, so if you can draw LOS to the base, you can see the model (regardless of the model's pose). Does this not apply anymore?
It seems like these new rules are dictating which poses it is best to model... crouching models are out, as they have limited LOS, skinny models with their arms tight to their sides are in, as they are easier to tuck behind terrain. Maybe I should make an army standing at attention? Give them all platform shoes, too...
Tyranids: 2500 pts
Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
Witch Hunters: 1000 pts
The base never mattered in 4th edition either, although it was very common to play the game the way you described. That's not what the rules said.
Anyway, no, seeing the base doesn't count for anything, have to see the model.
Lots of people make jokes about modelling a low crawling assault army, or Devastator squads on stilts, or what have you. Honestly, anybody who actually does it is playing a totally different game than I and most of us are, and they're welcome to do so, with other people who play the same game.
I fully expect Adepticon to take the lead and tournaments in general to shift next year and institute some rule to the effect of 'Your opponent may request that any "Custom" infantry model be proxied by a standard plastic space marine with bolter for purposes of LOS.'
I ran into this problem last night. Many of my 'nid models have "dramatic" poses (arms flaying outward, claws reared up to attack, etc.). For example, my sniperfex is modeled on top of a snowy rock instead of only his base. He was targeted last night in a group game because he was a bit higher up than he "should" have been.
I really hate these new "TLoS" rules in 5th. It makes many people just pose their models in bland and boring ways to restrict their visibility and enhance their survivability (especially assault-based models). Where's the fun in that? So now my warrior can be targeted behind a rock because his scything talon is sticking out in a dramatic and neat-looking pose?
We should just use colored blocks to represent our models then so everything can be "fair."
Bleh... I say out with TLoS.
I don't think they can target the scything talon. They can target the arm attached to it, but not the talon itself.
Consider a space marine holding an axe high into the air, if all they can see is his axe, then they can't target him, if they can see his arm, then they can, although he will get a cover save.
I'm with Guthbrand about the talon. The BRB says that you have to be able to trace LOS to the head, torso, arms or legs. It specifically mentions wings and tails, but I believe that scything talons would also come into the bracket of impressive blades, as the comment about the wings and tail is enlarged upon by saying that these are "technically part of [its] body" (P.16 BRB, right column 2nd paragraph line 8 ).
It is an interesting one though about having majestically posed models who are placed "on a rock" for example, which raises them above the normal level of the other troops. I don't know though if this would include more models than the Commander types, which tend to be more extensively modelled with fancy bases.
In the grey box on P.16 BRB, it says
"We have chosen true line of sight because it makes the game feel much more cinematic and 'real'."
If you follow that one through, then it makes sense that models (ie soldiers) who stand on a rock are more easily spotted, and therefore more readily targetable. It does tend to make it a pain though since your beautifully posed Commander can now be shot at by every Tom, Dick and Harry (unless he's in a unit, of course).
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"
Plus of course, there's a big rock in the middle of that field too, right. I truly dislike the TLOS rule, but whenever we have an issue it's a simple matter of replacing the awesome conversion with a dull old normal model to check again.
For example, my Archon is a converted Eldar Bonesinger who is on this vine-bone outgrowth from the ground, maybe a half and inch to an inch higher than normal. Whenever there's an issue, I replace him with the normal boring Lord. Unfortunately, I heavily GSed my Carnifexes (for my Nids) and Hive Tyrant to give them multiple heads and the like for a great hydra look, or large cannons from their back.
I haven't played so much with my Nids 5th ed, but when I do, its angering that my models can be targeted because of my hive tyrant's extra heads is peeping out from the top of an outcropping.
It all comes down to good opponents. We're all pretty chill, so when playing with each other (as opposed to the gaming store), we call these sort of models a no-go on firing. In return, my friend's Ork Big Mek (on a big rock as well) isn't targettable just coz he's on an inch high base. Of course, same deal goes for when the model in question is firing as well. They're either hidden and not able to shoot or targettable and can fire.
[quote=darkspawn327;1233167]Unfortunately, I heavily GSed my Carnifexes (for my Nids) and Hive Tyrant to give them multiple heads and the like for a great hydra look, or large cannons from their back.
Do you have pics? I'd like to see some hydra-nids
1"x2"x1" cylinder denoting the line of site to a specific model (for character models)
and a 1"x2" vertical stand that goes in front of the model in question to check LOS, if you can't hit the templates you don't have LOS (and vice versa)
Dear Game Designer,
Rock is Cheese. Paper is fine.
It might be a slitght stretch of the rules but you may be able to get your oponents to only consider one of the heads, probably the middle head, to be targetable.