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I was playing a game the other day. He argued that the IC didn't need a 25% shooting test because he's an IC and not part of that squad anymore, while I argued you can't leave a squad during the shooting phase so he's still part of the squad that was wiped out.
I'm referring to a squad he joins btw, but I'm curious to see if a retinue would be handled differently.
You're right, IC's can only leave a unit during the owning player's movement phase (rule book, pg 48 ). If the unit falls back, the IC has to go along with it (same page). If the IC has a retinue, he can never leave it till the retinue is killed (same page, last paragraph). So if the retinue suffers 25% casualties, the whole unit (including IC) goes along with it. Once the IC/unit is falling back, the IC cannot leave the unit until the unit regroups and can move normally.
"The internet perceives censorship as damage, and routes around it."
independent characters once it is in two inches or less to any unit it is automatically joined whether you want to or not. its not an option anymore. so the character transfers his ability to the unit and vice-versa. so if ur jump pack chaplain gets too close to ur walking tac squad he is part of that squad and they are fearless during shooting and assault phases. so yea he should have to suffer a 25% casualty. he was being a poor loser.
Traitors dine in heLL.
Okay, but what about if the squad he's in isn't a retinue?
As far as I know:
IC's still count as a part of unit in regards of any morale test which should be taken due to casualties inflicted by enemy fire, even if enemy obliterates his entire squad, and IC will be left alone in the middle of the battle.
If IC fails morale test it will fall back.
One the next round that character will revert to IC status (since he won't be in a squad anymore) - allowing him to take Regroup test.
Still, I may be wrong on this one, so please correct me.
Last edited by Shas'saal N'dras; August 27th, 2008 at 12:38.
I agree with Shas. The character is still a part of the unit when its models are destroyed, so the IC would still have to take a morale test since the unit he is in has taken 25%+ casualties.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
I agree with Rork and Shas. P.48 BRB under "Retinues" says that in this situation the IC counts as an upgrade character for the unit. On P.47 BRB an upgrade character is clarified as being
"...part of units from the start of the game, representing a squad leader or unit champion..."
In these cases, the *unit* always takes the 25%+ casualties test, so if an IC = an upgrade character for a Retinue, then the Retinue unit (which includes the IC) must be liable for 25%+ casualties tests, even if the whole retinue is wiped out. It's only after that test is made and results known and dealt with that the IC can return to being an IC.
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"
This argument occurred in 4th edition, that he can't ever leave the unit. As soon as the unit is reduced to just the IC, he MUST by default leave the unit b/c the unit no longer exists, and according to the IC rules in the 5th rulebook an IC is always a separate unit. He isn't really ever a part of the unit either ... he's his own unit within the unit, following its rules in xyz scenarios. When the other unit ceases to exist, the IC is still his own unit and the other unit's already been scored. He is stil falling back, but can rally yatta yatta.
I think this can be a slippery slope of rhetoric yet again, but it always is.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
Staying on topic: As MVB said, you can't be part of something which doesn't exist. At the start of the turn, the IC is not part of the unit (below 50% and fleeing or otherwise) because that unit no longer exists.
I also agree in principle that he takes a morale check for 25% casualties even if the unit is destroyed, but that one's a little harder to defend.
EDIT: He takes the test because at that point in the shooting phase he was part of a unit which took 25% casualties, even though he is no longer part of it because it no longer exists?
Last edited by Moglun; August 27th, 2008 at 21:34.
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