shaken/stunned rhino passengers unable to fire in their next shooting phase?

[Moschaboy]

ok i got my AoBR box today and read the rulebook. reading the section for transports i found something i'm not sure about, so here's my question:

are models in a transport vehicle able to shoot in their next shooting phase after disembarking, if the transport gets stunned or shaken due to getting shot?

the vehicle damage chart explanation says that passengers of stunned/shaken rhinos can't shoot in their next shooting phase, but are otherwise unaffected. does that mean they only can't shoot out of the vehicle (like the rhinos hatch)? are they only counted as passengers as long as they are in the rhino? does that status vanish when they disembark so they can, for example, rapidfire something?

i'd say that description only refers to a unit still in the transport in it's shooting phase where the ruling makes sense, since the vehicle crew can't fire either. if it's really the case that the passengers cannot shoot after disembarking while their transport got stunned or shaken then the whole space marines in a rhino driveby thing just got alot worse.

thanks in advance for the help and tell me and all the others here what you think is the correct interpretation of that rule.

[Wicky]

Hi,
The rules ‘Shaken’ and ‘Stunned’ are for the ‘vehicles crew,’ not the passengers.

Check out page 61 brb.

Cheers.

[Moschaboy]

i'm referring to the entry in the transport vehicles subsection which tells you what effects the damage results have on the passengers. it's on page 67 in the brb. i have the german version of the book so i'm not able to quote it exactly but it says something like that:

crew shaken& crew stunned
the passengers may not shoot in their next shooting phase but are otherwise uneffected.

[Wicky]

Ah, my apologies!

I thought that you were looking at the Crew specifically (don’t know why I thought that, but anyway.)

The passengers may not shoot from the vehicle ‘until’ their next shooting phase means that you will have to suffer the loss of a turns shooting ‘from’ anything in or on the vehicle.

There is no limitation imposed for being outside the vehicle as you are ‘otherwise unaffected.’ Indeed, page 67.

Cheers.

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by wickywacky1

Ah, my apologies!

I thought that you were looking at the Crew specifically (don?t know why I thought that, but anyway.)

The passengers may not shoot from the vehicle ?until? their next shooting phase means that you will have to suffer the loss of a turns shooting ?from? anything in or on the vehicle.

There is no limitation imposed for being outside the vehicle as you are ?otherwise unaffected.? Indeed, page 67.

Cheers.

So the tank takes a hit, gets shaken (everybody inside gets rattled around hard), then the troops spill out and spend a turn trying to make their ears stop ringing.

Makes plenty of logical sense to me (and we all know how much that matters on the tabletop...), but I think that the RAW on this one says that they can.

Read the shaken/stunned entry on Page 67 very carefully - it specifically says that they cannot fire from the vehicle, but are otherwise unaffected. Since firing outside the tank is clearly not firing from the tank, it would appear to fall under the "otherwise unaffected" part.

[Wicky]

Originally Posted by Wraith

So the tank takes a hit, gets shaken (everybody inside gets rattled around hard), then the troops spill out and spend a turn trying to make their ears stop ringing.

Makes plenty of logical sense to me (and we all know how much that matters on the tabletop...), but I think that the RAW on this one says that they can.

Read the shaken/stunned entry on Page 67 very carefully - it specifically says that they cannot fire from the vehicle, but are otherwise unaffected. Since firing outside the tank is clearly not firing from the tank, it would appear to fall under the "otherwise unaffected" part.

I agree with you here and I did say that there is no limitation for being outside the vehicle.

Its only if they are passengers that any limit will be imposed by a stunned/shaken result on their shooting.

Moschaboys summation in his original post is correct.

Thanks.

[Moglun]

Just a quick additional note:
A 'fresh' unit that embarked into the shaken/stunned rhino would not be able to fire out of it, as they become passengers.

[Moschaboy]

ok thanks for clarification, everyone, i guess i just have to thank the translators who %&§$ed up their job. nowhere does it say anything about firing out of the vehicle in my rule book...

[Wicky]

Originally Posted by Moglun

Just a quick additional note:
A 'fresh' unit that embarked into the shaken/stunned rhino would not be able to fire out of it, as they become passengers.

Moglun, are you certain about this?

As the ‘fresh’ unit were not passengers in the turn the vehicle suffered the damage, and therefore should not affected.

And the rule says that passengers may not shoot in their ‘next’ shooting phase – so that effect would take place when they actually become passengers, and this would be in the turn ‘after’ they embark?

I don’t think that you can apply a vehicle damage result from the previous turn to a separate unit that embarks the next turn.

But this is something I have not encountered before and I am just walking my way through all of this.

Cheers Mate.

[Moglun]

Originally Posted by wickywacky1

Moglun, are you certain about this?

As the ‘fresh’ unit were not passengers in the turn the vehicle suffered the damage, and therefore should not affected.

And the rule says that passengers may not shoot in their ‘next’ shooting phase – so that effect would take place when they actually become passengers, and this would be in the turn ‘after’ they embark?

I don’t think that you can apply a vehicle damage result from the previous turn to a separate unit that embarks the next turn.

But this is something I have not encountered before and I am just walking my way through all of this.

Cheers Mate.

Well, I must confess that I said that without referring to the relevant section. My thinking was 'may not shoot in the next shooting phase' as opposed to 'their next shooting phase'.

On closer examination I'm not sure either way. On the one hand, the fresh unit are passengers, and it is the 'next' shooting phase after the shaken result. On the other hand, the use of 'their' seems to imply the specific passengers who were in the vehicle at the time of the shaking.

I really can't decide, so I will retract my previous statement and defer to the judgment of my peers, with the following caveat: It does seem to me that the intention is that no shooting, from the vehicle itself or from passengers inside it, is supposed to be allowed.