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Hi - ive been trying to get my head around the rules, and I'm getting really confused about saving throws. Ive asked a few people, but i still cant figure it out.
Without wanting to sound a bit thick, Ive grasped that if i have troops in a building then i would use the cover chart (and it would be a 3+ save).
What Im confused about (looking at the rulebook that came with black reach), is on p20.
I understand that my Ork army has to roll a 6 when hit so as to not die, and that with my marines or necrons its 3,4,5,6.
When it comes to AP though i just glaze over. If a boltgun has an AP of 5 does that mean that someone hit with it who is wearing armour has to roll 5 or a 6 not to be killed/wounded? If so, how does that relate to what i said in the last paragraph?
As i said, i play marines, chaos marines, necrons & orks, so any examples or clarity would REALLY help!!!
Hi - i hope its ok to post this as the rules are (to me at least) really confusing
So if a marine gets hit with a boltgun (AP5), then they would have to roll less than a 4 to save? (its also confusing me as i thought 3+ meant higher than a 3, not lower). Or, if they were hit by a gauss blaster (AP4), they would have to roll less than a 4?
Im sorry for sounding thick and i hope im not breaking any rules. I have the rule book, but i just cant get my head around this.
If this thread is removed, can you at least explain this to me in a PM?
p20 of the 5th Edition Rulebook should contain all the rules and examples needed for you on the Armour Save topic :)
That being said, as long as the Sv value of the unit being shot at is lower than the Armour Penetration (or AP) value of the gun, that unit makes a Saving Throw. This Saving Throw will be successful if you roll equal to or higher than your Sv value.
The AP value of a weapon is the amount of armour it can punch through on its target.
So an AP5 Bolter has enough power to blast straight through anything up to a 5+ saving throw, meaning that 5+ and 6+ saves just don't happen - the armour just isn't able to stop a Bolter shell. A Stormtrooper or scout with their 4+ save is unaffected, they take saving throws as normal.
Compare to an AP3 Krak Missile which is much, much more powerful, letting it punch through anything up to a 3+ save. This means that Marines are denied their (3+) save, not to mention anything with less armour. If you're going to survive this one, you're going to need the kind of protection that a Terminator suit provides (2+).
AP2 and AP1 weapons are so massively powerful that no armour out there can stand up to them! You need an invulnerable save (provided by a Force Field, or maybe your guy is just that tough!) or cover save (hide behind a really big rock and hope!) to make saving throws at all.
Note that there are weapons that deny cover (flamers), invulnerable (mostly Daemonhunters gear), or sometimes even both! They'll have a special note in the weapon's description.
To simplify this a little bit:
A weapon's AP tells you which armor saves you may use and which you may not, rather than affecting what value needs to be rolled on the dice. Note that this does not affect cover saves at all, which are a separate type of save that the defender may use instead.
To know if you get an armour save or not from a gunshot, you compare the AP value of the gun with the value of your saving throw, as Krovin-Rezh said.
AP is based on a scale from Low (AP1) to High (AP6). The lower the AP, the better the weapon is at breaking through a model's armour - in other words, defeating its armour save. So if you fire a Boltgun (AP5) at a Space Marine (Save = 3) then you still get to make a saving throw attempt against this wound, as the Marine's armour is able to withstand the boltgun shell.
If you fired the boltgun (AP5) at an Imperial Guard trooper wearing Carapace Armour (save = 4+) then you would still get to make a save as the armour is - just! - good enough to deflect the shot.
If however you fired the Boltgun (AP5) at an Ork (save = 5+), then the Ork does not get a chance to make any save as his armour just isn't good enough to stop the bolt shell from going through it.
Basically it boils down to this: If the armour save value is lower on the scale than the AP of the firing weapon, then you get to make a normal armour save. If it's the other way round, then you don't get to make a normal armour save.
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"
(IE, a Cover Save)This Save represents the chance of a bullet bouncing off of armour when it looked like it might Wound.my Ork army has to roll a 6 when hit
(IE, an Armour Save)This means that its bullets don't bounce off of anything with 5+ or lower.a boltgun has an AP of 5
There's no need to waste time with saving throws for 5+ or 6+ armour deflection.
In effect, it AutoPenetrates 5+ or lower armour.
Last edited by Playa; September 30th, 2008 at 05:19.